Light ROM 1/LIGHT-ROM 1 (Amiga Library Services)(1994).iso/imagine/text/archive.45

Text File | 1994-10-19 | 291KB | 7,344 lines

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5585 Re: Twist and Shout...
11/9/93 22:26 43/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 43 (23%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
 > I love the deformations.  There is twist, bend, pinch, taper, stretch, and
> shear.  Thats the good news.  The bad news is that they don't all work.
> At least for me.  Maybe I'm screwing something up?!?  OK here the deal...
> Create a Cylinder.  Transform the axis to scale the z axis to the full
> length of the cylinder.  Select it, then try the bend command.
> Interactively the bounding box is transformed nicely.  Things "look"
> encouraging.  Click on OK.  Object snaps back to its original shape. :(
>
> I have got the twist, shear, stretch, pinch, and taper to work, but no go
> on the bend.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Oooooh!  This sounds really good.  I can't wait til I get my Amiga
version.  Hmm.  Think about what you're trying to do.  Can you really
bend a cylinder, when there's no points in the middle of the faces?
Maybe it should work, but it sounds like you're using the wrong kind
of object.  Try this: make a vertical line, with many points in the
line.  Sweep it around the axis to make a tube.  THEN try the bend
transform.  (Assuming it wasn't really disabled)  It should then bend
properly, since it actually has points to bend around.

Command:
>
> One of the biggest dissapointments with Imagine 2.0 PC was the total lack
> of textures.  I believe that 8 were shipped with it orignially.  And no
> Essence for the PC.  Imagine 2.9 has MANY textures.  A nice refreshing
> change for PC users.  I'm still investigating.  Trying multiple in
> combination.  DINOSKIN, WORMVIENS, STAINGLAS are neato!
>
> Looks like Particles are included, but I've not tried it yet.  Says in the
> document that comes with it: "Particles F/X only works on objects for the
> moment.  In the next version of IMagine you will be able to do this to any
Command:
> object in the group".

Wow.  Imagine is starting to sound more like Wavefront every day. :)
Ok, more KINDA like Wavefront.  (I do use Wavefront at work, so I know
what I'm talking about :)

> If I'm babbling on about things that everyone knows, let me know...

How would we know without folks like you giving us reports? :)

Command:
Danimal
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5586 Re: Twist and Shout...
11/9/93 22:57 18/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Wed, 10 Nov 1993, Daniel Jr Murrell wrote:

> > I have got the twist, shear, stretch, pinch, and taper to work, but no go
> > on the bend.
> version.  Hmm.  Think about what you're trying to do.  Can you really
> bend a cylinder, when there's no points in the middle of the faces?

OK, so I tried it with a plane instead.  This time I got it work.  I am by
no means, an expert at this.  Major learning curve parity bit ON.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Thanks for the advice.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5587 Re: Imagine pc-help
11/9/93 23:25 27/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Tue, 9 Nov 1993 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Ok fellow PC (and Amiga) Imagineers, lets see if you can help me...
>
> I created a group composed of 118 objects, 14,168 points, 35,697 edges and
> 21,852 faces.  No textures, no brush maps, nothing, 'cept for many and many
> sharp defined edges.
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> Problem:  I cannot render the entire Image.  Imagine apparently doesn't have
> enough memory to do it (I have 8 Meg in my machine).  Both Im2.0 and Im2.9 will
> only render what it can (ie: about 1/3 of the total objects).
>
> Does Imagine require more memory?  From the detail editor in Im2.9, after I
> load in the grouped objects, I have 4,013,080 Bytes Avail, and Largest Block is
> 4,012,944.
>
> P.S.  I boot a clean system
I have found that you would need about 12 Meg to render a scene with
Command:
about 20000 faces. This is on the Amiga. The PC version seems to be a bit
more memory hungry (needs minimum 4M to run) so you may find that you
need even more than 12M.

Nik.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5588 Twist and Bend w/ IM2.9
11/10/93 08:39 22/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
OK, so I've got the Twist to work, and the bend to work.  But not
together.  I took a disk made from 4 points (a square really) and removed
the middle point.  Extruded it to a lenght of 100 with 20 section.  Nice
square tube.  Now I transform my Axis to force the Z axis to extend along
the axis of the tube (and extend to at least the end of the object).  Use
the twist command.  It works.  Nice.  Undo that.  Now use the Bend
Command.  Nice.  Now try to Twist it after you Bent it.  Nada.  What I was
trying to do was to creat a twisting arch.

Interesting thing about bend is that the endpoint of the object don't
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
move.  From a strucutral engineering standpoint you would say that the
ends were fixed with respect to rotation and translation.  It would be
nice to allow the end point to rotate so that the base of the object is
perpindicular to the central axis.  But hey, they just get his out and I'm
whining for more...  such is life.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5589 Imagine Animation Speeds
11/10/93 08:10 28/ "Rob (R.D.) Hounsell" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 28 (35%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Folks,

  What is the actual playback rate of the animation preview in the perspective
view of the stage editor? If the speed control slider is set all the way to the
right (fastest), is it meant to represent 30fps? (assuming ideal conditions
i.e. no additional CPU load, etc.). I'd like to have some accurate method of
determining the timing of a segment in the stage editor preview without actually
rendering the thing in the project editor and then playing it (trial and error
method).

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
  I'll ask the same question about playing Imagine-format animations from the
project editor, if the animation was generated without a movie file. What is
the default rate? Does the playback software in Imagine read the movie file? If
so, why don't changes in the movie file come into effect until the next time
the animation is generated? Are they somehow incorporated into the specs file,
or in the anim.xxxx files themselves?


Thx
Rob
Command:
--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Rob Hounsell                           BNR WAN:  HOUNSELL@NMERH53           |
| Team Leader: UNIX                      INTERNET: [e-mail]            |
| System Performance:                    PHONE: [phone]                |
| Paradigm Club Design Team. Dept. PS27  ESN: 395-2904                        |
| Northern Telecom Public Switching                                           |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5590 PAR connectors
11/10/93 09:14 32/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Lines 1 to 10 of 32 (31%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

        Thanks for the responses I've gotten so far.

        Since now I know that it is possible to send the NTSC signal to my
        TV and/or VHS VCR (I thought that was the case), I guess my
        problem is concerning the cable from the PAR board to my VCR/TV.

        The output of the PAR is a different connector than the input to
        my VCR/TV.  (This is where my ignorance shows.)  I beleive the PAR
        has a BNC type connector (is that the name?) and the VCR/TV
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
        connectors have the RCA type connectors.  Is there a common patch
        cable that will go between these connections?  That's what
        prompted my previous question.  I wasn't sure if a the connector
        type on the PAR was indicating a signal type that my VHS machine
        could not handle.  If there is no signal problem, then I just need
        the proper cable.  Any one have input on this?  Is this a cable
        that I can pick up at a Radio Shack?  Or would I be better off
        going to a video supply house and getting a sheilded cable?

        Thanks in advance.  I have an Imagine animation I dieing to get to
Command:
        tape.

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
Command:
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
                                    .
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5591 Re: PAR question
11/10/93 09:44 15/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Dale R. Rogers writes...

> I know that one of the outputs of the DPS PAR is NTSC composite.
> Does this mean I can output a signal to my video monitor on my
> television?   I would also like to record test animations to my
> VHS recorder.  Is this possible?

    Yup.. That's pretty much how it works. :)  The output in composite, but
it's using a superior BNC type connector.  You can go to Radio Shack and buy
a 6' BNC to BNC cable, and a BNC -> to RCA adaptor to use at the end of the
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
cable so it'll fit into a consumer VHS deck.  Then you can have the Output
of your VCR feed your television.  Neato how tht works, eh? :)

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5592 Re: PAR question
11/10/93 09:49 24/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>
>
>
>       I know that one of the outputs of the DPS PAR is NTSC composite.
>       Does this mean I can output a signal to my video monitor on my
>       television?   I would also like to record test animations to my
>       VHS recorder.  Is this possible?
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>       Dale
>

        Yes.  It has an NTSC composite BNC connector, a SVHS S-Video
output, and 3 BNC's for MII or Betacam.

        This is what it is made for.  I use it to play my 24 bit anims in
real time.


Command:
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5593 Re: imagine pc-help
11/10/93 09:41 26/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

To GreG tsadilas  [e-mail]

> To anyone who is wondering what the object in question is/are, it's
>called the "AFS-mk I", which stands for "ARMOURED FIGHTING SUIT-mark 1".
>Basically it's a motorized exoskeleton that one climbs into for protection
>during combat.  This is a whim of mine, nothing I'm working on for anyone
>but myself.

   Have you seen that new cartoon show on Saturday called "Exo-Squad" or
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
something like that?  It is about a squadron of future soldiers with
Exoskeleton suits.  Pretty detailed for a cartoon show.  They are in a
struggle with the Neohumans from Mars who have their own Exoskeleton suits,
different designs.
  BTW, have you had any luck with any Extended Memory Managers and Imagine
PC?  I have found that Imagine PC doesn't seem to "like" any EMM's at all
but I think this is the reason for lack of memory problem.  It appears to me
that Imagine PC will use mostly DOS memory, and needs almost the whole 640K
to run effectively.  On the other hand, it seems to be able to use expanded
memory during rendering.  I haven't tried QEMM yet, maybe that will work.
Command:
 Imagine PC sure doesn't like EMM386 in DOS and it doesn't like XMS for
Windows.  I haven't been able to get Imagine PC to run at all when the
Windows config is used for booting up, even if I don't call Windows.  I
think it is possible that Imagine PC would run more effectively if there
were some EMM that it is compatible with it but I haven't found it yet.  If
you have had any better luck, please let me know.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5594 Re: Imagine Animation Speeds
11/10/93 11:09 37/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>
>Folks,
>
>  What is the actual playback rate of the animation preview in the perspective
>view of the stage editor? If the speed control slider is set all the way to the
>right (fastest), is it meant to represent 30fps? (assuming ideal conditions
>i.e. no additional CPU load, etc.). I'd like to have some accurate method of
>determining the timing of a segment in the stage editor preview without actually
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>rendering the thing in the project editor and then playing it (trial and error
>method).
>

        I don't think they seem to be correct for a fps.  I use the second
to fastest as an approximation on my A3000....it also seems that that plays
closer to true 30fps when I do a Play Big  (only available on the Amiga
side).

>  I'll ask the same question about playing Imagine-format animations from the
Command:
>project editor, if the animation was generated without a movie file. What is
>the default rate? Does the playback software in Imagine read the movie file? If
>so, why don't changes in the movie file come into effect until the next time
>the animation is generated? Are they somehow incorporated into the specs file,
>or in the anim.xxxx files themselves?
>

        I belive it gets incorporated.  BTW, you can play with the speeds
whileyou are playing back.  Space will move 1 frame at a time, and F1-F8 I
think will adjust the speeds...F1 being fastest...
Command:



--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5595 Thanks for the PAR info
11/10/93 11:41 21/ [e-mail] (Dale R Rogers)
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


        It will take less time to respond to the list, as opposed to all
        the persons who responded to my questions.

        Thanks for the PAR connection info.  It was very timely and
        helpful information.

        BTW... the list consistently beats the manufacturers on giving me
        support.  DPS hasn't got back to me yet.  Thanks for the help.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

        Dale


        ____________________________^____________________________
        dale r. rogers

        Intergraph Corporation
        Building Design & Management             MailStop: LR24A4
        [e-mail]           Tel: [phone]
Command:
                                    .
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5596 Piccolo 24bits card Mailing list. Interested?
11/10/93 07:26 27/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
I know it's a bit off-topic, but surely of interest to most subscribers.

I've recently (last weekend) laid my hands on a Piccolo 2MB EGS supporting
Graphics card.  After some initial problems in getting the card to do as I

wanted it to,(I found CPUBlit installed in my User-Startup and the Piccolo
seemed not to like that program.) it's now working satisfactorally. Having
a non-flickering WorkBench at 800x600 in 256 colors isn't all bad. And its
just as fast as my 724x566 ECS 4 color screen.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Anyway, I've been talking to the German manufacturer and they were willing
to give support via a mailing-list.  It'll either go thru me or Active who
are the Dutch Piccolo distributor. Unfortunately our system do not support
mailing-list right now. So would anybody be willing to do the actual mail?

In order to see if there is interest in this idea, please send me an email
if you like to be on it.  I will collect these and you will be notified or
automatically subscribed to the list. That depends on who's doing what...

And now back to our regular programming... Thank you for your time...
Command:

CYa, Paul
   __
--/_/ |/ ------------+- EMail: [e-mail] -
-/aul |\olenbrander--+-----------------------------------
---------------------+------ A-4000/040 and A-3000 ------
-Reg Amiga&CD32 Dev.-+- Having the BEST of both worlds. -
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5597 Imagine Archive
11/10/93 12:56 7/ [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
Lines 1 to 7 of 7 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


   Are the imagine archives a monthly thing? Is there another coming out soon?


  Greg

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5598 Re: Imagine pc-help
11/10/93 13:58 12/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]> writes:
> I have found that you would need about 12 Meg to render a scene with
> about 20000 faces. This is on the Amiga.

This is by no means universally applicable, as CastleRoom consisted of more
than 20000 faces and rendered in less than 6MB of RAM.  That was with a
fair bit of refraction and reflection, including three light sources and
two bitmap images.  There are many more factors involved than just #faces,
although I'd be hard pressed to enumerate them all.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5599 Re: PAR connectors
11/9/93 21:51 20/ j#d#[e-mail] (J. Moore)
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
DRR> The output of the PAR is a different connector than the input to
DRR> my VCR/TV.  (This is where my ignorance shows.)  I beleive the PAR
DRR> has a BNC type connector (is that the name?) and the VCR/TV
DRR> connectors have the RCA type connectors.  Is there a common patch
DRR> cable that will go between these connections?  That's what
DRR> prompted my previous question.  I wasn't sure if a the connector
DRR> type on the PAR was indicating a signal type that my VHS machine
DRR> could not handle.  If there is no signal problem, then I just need
DRR> the proper cable.  Any one have input on this?  Is this a cable
DRR> that I can pick up at a Radio Shack?  Or would I be better off
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
DRR> going to a video supply house and getting a sheilded cable?

Just an adaptor will do.  Check with a video supply house if you have one
nearby.  I get my cables done at one here in Toronto and not only are
their connectors better quality than Radio Shack, they're 2/3s the price.
I use BNC ends on both end and an RCA adaptor (so they can do double
duty) but you could have a cable made up with different connectors on
each end.

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] *
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5600 Re: Upgrade and Giveaway
11/10/93 10:59 22/ [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> And speaking of questions, the Amiga Formatters are showing up in
> amiga.graphics and starting to ask all sorts of elementary things that the
> manual would have even answered.  They even have the nerve to complain about
> the program!  They'll discover us soon enough so I'm going back into hiding
> now.

Well, I just talked to Impulse, and they said that the AF Upgrade
offer was ONLY for the European people, not for the American/NTSC
users...  So anyone wanting to go that route is SOL...:)
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

     // Jeff Saffold
   \X/ Only the Amiga makes it possible.

... We give advice, but we cannot give the wisdom to profit by it.
___
 X MsgView V1.13 [R029] X
--
*******************************************************************************
* Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway                   Data/Fax: [phone] *
Command:
* Pueblo, Colorado USA                               FidoNet:  1:307/18       *
*******************************************************************************
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5601 Bye bye,
11/11/93 07:57 18/ [e-mail] (Adam Benjamin)
Lines 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


Well, I'm droping my name off the list as I get ready for the big adventure
(life that is..)

I have accepted a job with IBM's customer support, and will be
moving about 850 miles.

Keep on Keeping on, my friends

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Adam Benjamin


--
---
Adam Benjamin      [e-mail]   A.K.A.  [e-mail]
Christian Animator    Computer junkie      4000/40 CD-ROM 486DX33
Get a life! (John 3-16)
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5602 question
11/11/93 09:14 10/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 10 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Any ideas on how to model a candle flame?  Animated ofcourse.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5603 More on the arrow
11/11/93 09:27 36/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 36 (27%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

I played around with the arrow a little.  Came up with something a little
better(still needs work, however)

Action editor:

                                   12345678901234567890
ARROWBODY&PATH       position      __________----------
                     fx1           ==========
                     fx2                     ==========
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
PATH                 actor         --------------------

position 1-10 is just tween and you don't move it
position 11-20 is follow path, where path is the same path that the arrow
grows along.  You have to have saved it as a different object, say PATH,
and have it lined up in the stage editor so that the begining of the path is
touching the axis of the arrowbody&path group.
fx1 is grow, have it grow along path(see earlier post, read Understanding
Imagine 2.0, etc)
fx2 is grow along path but with time reversed.  Maybe you dont need this
Command:
effect, but it was what I used when I was playing with it.

This gives you the effect of the arrow squirming along your path, across the
screen, and the squirming off the screen.  Probably looks best if the head
of the arrow is offscreen when you start frame 11.

Again this is just an experiment and you may want to play with this yourself.
It still needs work, but it looked nice.


Command:
Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5604 Re: candle flame
11/11/93 10:22 22/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
I used a morphing fog object, but that's only useful if you'll never have
one flame pass in front of another.  Also, I'm crippled by not having
Essence; I've heard of some neat techniques for flames using that approach.

When you're making the fog object, remember that it's not a simple
teardrop; the interior, where actual combustion initiates, is a small oval
that is completely transparent.  I sliced a distorted sphere out of the
inside of a teardrop, and that has worked fairly well.

Make your wick several colors, white shading up to black to red to bright
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
yellow-orange at the tip, and make it BRIGHT so it's like a glowing coal.
I made mine a sort of question-mark shape.

Needless to say, I went half-blind staring at candle flames to model this...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5605 CD32 and Imagine
11/11/93 10:52 35/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 35 (28%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
  Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.

  Just think, you could send your MPEG animation to the CD32 via
SCSI and use its hardware MPEG decoding to play animations at
a full 30 fps in 24-bit at full screen resolution!
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

  Or you could use the CD32 to process images as they complete rendering
and them send them back.  The image processing part would not slow down
(very much) the additional frames rendering.

  I wish I had to time to write something like this myself.  It would
be a very interesting project.  I would have the CD32 look sort of like
a disk drive to the host computer.  Packets sent to the CD32 would be
similar to writing a small file to a SCSI drive.  The software would
periodically read a small file from the CD32 (maby 5 times a second)
Command:
so that the CD32 could send packets back to the host computer.

  All types of input could be sent to the CD32 via packets over the SCSI
bus: keyboard, mouse, disk drives, requests to play animations, requests
to get files from the CD-ROM drive, requests to run programs.

  I've been wanting to get a CD-ROM drive to add to my accumulation of
Amiga computing machinery.  How much better it would be if I could
add a CD32 for the same price and get all of these additional features.

Command:
  I think Commodore could sell a lot more of these CD32 things if they
provide a good interface via SCSI to the rest of the Amiga family.

-Jeff Wahaus-

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5606 question
11/11/93 12:05 19/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>Any ideas on how to model a candle flame?  Animated ofcourse.

Try using 'gas' object... use multiple/different coloured gas objects will
do it very nicely  (blue for the inside, yellow for the middle, organge for
the outer side of the flame).

Similar trick was used to create my "JetThrust.lha" (which I haven't uploaded
to FTP yet due to a technical difficulty)  :)

>Tom Setzer
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>[e-mail]

+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Roy Park            | C=      A3000@25Mhz-14.4HST-2MBPicassoII|
|[e-mail] |   //  DM3024-ST296N-LP240S-LP240S-LP105S|
|[e-mail]       | \X/ ViewSonic17-2MBChip/12MBFast-Emplant|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5607 Re: candle flame
11/11/93 14:03 31/ Byrt Martinez <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
content-type:text/plain;charset=us-ascii
mime-version:1.0

>I used a morphing fog object, but that's only useful if you'll never have
>one flame pass in front of another.  Also, I'm crippled by not having

I'm starting to wonder about this cancelling out effect of Imagine. I had a
similar type of thing happen when modelling a phaser beam, but I got the
effect I wanted, though I still don't understand why. Apparantly, when the
cancelling phenomenon occurs, it looks as if it is doing some XORing. I THINK
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
that if you put say a third flame in front of the second one passing in front
of the first one, the flame comes back when all three are in line with each
other.

Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't test this theory right now. But I do
have this cool pic of my phaser beam which shows this weird "feature."
Although, the phaser beam doesn't use fog, it looks as though it should. :-/

If anyone wants, I can ftp the pic somewhere, maybe Aminet. Let me know.

Command:
--
@******************************************************************************@
*                                      "When you point your finger 'cause your *
*  Byrt Martinez                        plan fell through, you've got 3 more   *
*  - Non-Christian  8^P                 fingers pointing back at you."         *
*    (Fred 12:45)                       - Dire Straits                         *
*                                                                              *
*  [e-mail], [e-mail]                           *
@******************************************************************************@

Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5608 scallop shell
11/11/93 15:58 4/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 4 of 4 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
        I'd like to model a scallop shell. Any idea on how to create
easily the stripes ?

Stanis  [e-mail]
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5609 CD32 and Imagine
11/11/93 16:20 31/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
With a sparkle in his eyes, Jeff Wahaus writes...

> Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
> hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
> CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
> only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
> an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.

Jeff...
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

    This is POSSIBLE, but it's not probable.  First of all, CD32 does not
have SCSI.  Second of all, CD32 is powered by a low-end 60EC020, without a
math co-processor.  You're not gonna get a signifigant boost of rendering
speed from CD32 unless you're maybe used to a 68000 for rendering.
  Also, CD32 has 2 megs of RAM [I think]..  That's just enough to play
games, hardly enough to use a 3D program.
  The MPEG would be a plus tho, as would it's display abilities as a near-
24-bit frame buffer.  But I think the closest you'll get to this idea is to
get an A1200 [with some Xtra memory and an 030] and wait for the CD32 add-on
Command:
module promised from Commodore.
  Myself, I've got a similar setup, but with all different equipment than
you mentioned..  Personal Animation Recorder to play anims instead of MPEG
and OpalVision [with OpalPaint] as a true 24-bit display device.  It may be
more expensive than the setup you suggested, but it's a cleaner display,
broadcast quality and it's possible. :)

  Sorry to shoot your idea full of holes like that..

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
Command:
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5610 Re: question
11/11/93 15:26 8/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Gas object?  Is this in 2.0?  I'll have to back and look at my
> manual.  ~:o

Yes, it's in Attributes requester.  Read it carefully, and you will see it!

:)


-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5611 CD32 and Imagine
11/11/93 15:26 35/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 10 of 35 (28%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>  Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
>use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
>hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
>CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
>only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
>an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.

A SCSI interface won't let you control CD32 remotely... you'd be lucky
if you just get the CD-ROM drive in CD32 working on other Amiga.  Also,
as for using CD32 as a 'rendering' engine, 68020 isn't too fast and
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
CD32 doesn't have math coprocessor.

If you want to get CD-ROM capability that bad, just buy a CD-ROM drive
or just get CD32.  Why all the trouble?  Nobody's going to bother
buying CD32 FOR THEIR AMIGA.  Weird thought...

>  Just think, you could send your MPEG animation to the CD32 via
>SCSI and use its hardware MPEG decoding to play animations at
>a full 30 fps in 24-bit at full screen resolution!

Command:
The MPEG is another issue... Commodore will have FMV module for every
(ok, some) Amiga in the future soon or later, so this isn't necessary.

>  I've been wanting to get a CD-ROM drive to add to my accumulation of
>Amiga computing machinery.  How much better it would be if I could
>add a CD32 for the same price and get all of these additional features.

And you can't have it for the same price... much higher.

>  I think Commodore could sell a lot more of these CD32 things if they
Command:
>provide a good interface via SCSI to the rest of the Amiga family.

Dream on!  :)


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5612 CD32 and Imagine
11/11/93 17:26 39/ [e-mail] (Phil Martin u)
Lines 1 to 10 of 39 (25%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
>   Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really

I know what you mean... I've been thinking about this sort of thing
too. (Not rendering specifically, just trying to think of something
cool I could have a 'slave' CD32 doing...

>
>   Just think, you could send your MPEG animation to the CD32 via
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> SCSI and use its hardware MPEG decoding to play animations at
> a full 30 fps in 24-bit at full screen resolution!

Yes, plus it has colour composite out (and supposedly it's a quite
high-quality signal - I've heard MPEG movies look better than SVHS,
although not broadcast quality) so it would be ideal for that sort
of thing. You could even use the CD32 to build the MPEG as the anim
is being rendered, send it back to the A4000 (or whatever) which
would have some big HD (and act like a 'server'), then when it's done,
the CD32 could play it off the A4000's HD....
Command:

>
>   Or you could use the CD32 to process images as they complete rendering
> and them send them back.  The image processing part would not slow down
> (very much) the additional frames rendering.

Another neat idea, since (in general) most image processing would be
a lot faster than rendering, but still quite time (and memory) consuming.

>
Command:
>   I wish I had to time to write something like this myself.  It would
> be a very interesting project.

I have to agree... Maybe someday...

>
> -Jeff Wahaus-
>
Phil Martin.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5613 Real3D 2.40 features list
11/11/93 09:39 237/ [e-mail] (Philippe Berard)
Lines 1 to 10 of 237 (4%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
    Hello all,

    After going to Koln's WoCA this year, I managed to get the list of all the
    new features of the new version of Real3D.

    By the way, as Vesa told me, the Essence (I & II) packages should be ready
    soon, along with the availability of 'C' hooks for programmers...

    Well, here it is :

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
--8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<--

Summary of new features and improvements :

- Highly increased rendering speed :
    - Render time material handling speed doubled
    - B-Spline shading speed 2-3 times higher
    - Maximally 4 times higher shading speed for example in the environment
      mode

Command:
- Improved memory management, allowing much more complex imported polygonal
  databases to be shaded

- Built-in 3D font loader tool

- New material features
  - Fractal noise mapping handler
  - Fractal noise scope handler
  - Fractal noise bump handler
  - Fractal noise color handler
Command:
  - Marble color handler
  - Granite color handler

- New tool window features :
  - Wider collection of built-in icons available
  - New dialog-based icon selection window
  - No gadgets option available

- Color wheel window available under OS v.39

Command:
- Improved and more complete keyboard support

- Built-in conical spotlights

- Built-in cylindrical spotlights

- New light source attributes
  - Distance intensity fading control
  - Spot-axis intensity fading control
  - Spot angle/radius control
Command:
  - Brightness control

- Create torus function

- Skin curve to surface

- Create parallel curve/surface tool

- Freeform extrusion tool :
  - Automatic bevelling with four bevel profile options
Command:
  - Adjustable beveling radius and extrusion depth
  - Both bevelling inwards and outwards supported
  - Fully automatic :  generates holes, adjusts bevelling radius, etc...
    correctly
  - Uses B-Splines for the best quality

- Q-Splines, a new shading option for meshes, which is usually faster than
  normal cubic B-Splines shading, but still without edges in the profile

- Advanced tool for creating comples skeletonal particle systems
Command:

- Volume filling particle tool

- New improved skeletons :
  - A new special skeleton primitive for better control and visual appearance
  - Joint friction enables natural motions
  - Editing of any skeleton point using inverse kinematics is now possible.
    For examples, it is possible to animate a skeleton using several
    inverse kinematics methods, each affecting the desired skeleton point

Command:
- Easy-to-use interface for editing physical attributes of objects.
  Tag-editing is no longer necessary

- New object attributes :
  - 'No shadows' eliminates shadows from the surface of an object,
    increasing rendering speed
  - 'Bump shadows' generates distorted shadow edges on bump mapped surfaces

- Freeform curves can be used as trim curves to cut objects

Command:
- Circular bending, which e.g. can be used to bend a straight tube into a ring

- Twist modification which twists objects around a given axis

- Shrink wrapping functions :
  - Parallel shrink wrap
  - Cylindrical shrink wrap
  - Spherical shrink wrap
  - 'Natural" shrink wrap to surface normal direction
  - These functions can be used to generate a mesh surface from geometric
Command:
    primitives, or to simulate boolean operations with freeforms

- A function for changing the start point of closed freeform objects

- A function for automatically generating triple end points/curve for
  freeform objects

- New and improved functions for View window's internal camera controlling.
  In the below, most important ones are listed :

Command:
    - A new, intuitive mouse-based camera MOTION controlling mode for view
      Windows, enabling easy, interactive scene viewing

    - A new, intuitive mouse-based camera POSITION controlling mode for view
      Windows, enabling accurate interactive camera positioning

    - Re-defined keyboard support for cursor key/control key based camera
      position control, offering total and accurate control over all
      possible camera positioning/tracking variations.  The same
      control-key qualifiers work also with the mouse-based control
Command:

      - Viewpoint rotations around aimpoint in camera/absolute space
      - Aimpoint rotations around viewpoint in camera/absolute space
      - Banking control
      - Aimpoint moving in camera space/absolute space
      - Viewpoint moving in camera space/absolute space
      - Panning in camera/absolute space
      - 90 degree rotations

    - New center display function
Command:

    - New reset scale function

    - Automatic aimpoint tracking feature e.g.  when animating the camera
      uses now horizon plane correction instead of the shortest route
      correction used in v2.35.  This eliminates undesired banking.

    - A new asynchronous window type for controlling Views' camera
      attributes and camera object interaction :

Command:
      - Scale control and lens angle control by slides and numerically
      - Aimpoint and viewpoint coordinate control & reset
      - Heading/Pitching/Banking angle control by sliders and numerical gadgets
      - Distance control
      - Depth of field control

    - A new camera object creation function, introducing a view cone based
      camera definition

    - New accurate input plane control system separately from View camera
Command:
      direction control, enabling accurate perspective editing :

      - Editing in absolute space coordinate directions
      - Editing in object space coordinate directions
      - Horizontal/vertical locking
      - Hot-point position control also in depth direction while editing

    - A new, handy asynchronous control window for handling View windows.
      It includes the most frequently needed grid control, scale control,
      drawing setting control, camera control and input plane control
Command:
      functions as quickly accessible icons.

    - Grids are now drawn in the input plane instead of the origin.  This
      is useful when using perspective modeling with separate IO option.

    - Reference coordinate system is now separated from coordinate printing
      in Drawing settings.

    - Numerical, accurate window size control.

Command:
- Animation frames can now be used instead of absolute time references.

- Easy-to-use interfaces for creating key frame animations and for editing
  them :

  - Possibility to adjust key frame positions in the animation using sliders
  - Key visibility control
  - Linear/B-Spline interpolation

- New graphical interfaces for most animation methods, including path,
Command:
  rotation, direction, sweep, size, and stretch methods.  This feature
  enables easy and more accurate control over method parameters and their
  evaluation.

- More versatile method parameter handling.  For example, sweep around a
  point rotates the target in all directions, but sweep around an axis
  allows rotation only around the axis.  For example, you can now sweep a
  camera in 3 dimensions without modifying the banking angle.

- New fractal noise based motion/spin method for generating irregular
Command:
  motions

- A time line interface for animation editing.  It allows easy editing of
  animation event timing.

- A graphical user interface for editing tag-based information of all
  animation methods

- The animation window can now appear as a window, not only on a separate
  screen
Command:

- File selector available from the animation window !

- New vector stack functions :

  - Lasso deselect
  - Push all points from the selected objects to stack
  - Pull all points from the stack

- Realconvert can now generate B-Splines from PDraw Clip files.  This is
Command:
  especially handy in combination with the new Freeform extrude tool

    Alltogether, about 100 new features and improvements, of which most are
intended to make the user interface easier and the features of the software
more accessible.

Some fixed bugs :

    - Autofocus in perspective mode
    - Alpha channel bugs
Command:
    - Depth of field overflows with high DOF values
    - HAM output uses register colors more frequently, preventing HAM color
      bleeding and allowing easier genlocking


--8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<-- CUT HERE --8<--

    Regards,

                                   -- Philippe
Command:

.----------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|       Philippe Berard, French Amiga programmer and graphist                |
| "They hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within" (Kate Bush)       |
| "And you can own all the light in the world, and still be blind"           |
|                                                          (Happy Rhodes)    |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5614 Candle flame
11/11/93 23:20 15/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Read the info on the FIREBALL texture.  It describes how to make a candle
flame.  If you don't have time to hunt for it, here it is:

"To do fire:  create a candle flame shaped object.  Apply the texture and
selext "Edit Axis" from the texture requestor.  Move the center of the texture
axis to the base of your flame.  Now scale the texture axis until ... [the]
axis extends beyond the top of your object.  In the texture requestor, set the
noise to 0.3 and the "Filter 2" param to 1.0.
Make the object bright."
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

I haven't tried this yet, let me know how it works.

GreG.tsadilas

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5615 Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 02:22 8/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Could someone please post a more in-depth review of Imagine 2.9?  Tell us how
the new features, has imagine retained it's old feel [especially the Amiga
versions]?  Does it have a different look?  Is the light source for the
interface buttons still coming from the upper-right hand corner?  How is the
realtime Perspective?  How is the particle stuffs?  Thanks.

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5616 Re: CD32 and Imagine
11/12/93 07:37 20/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
>   Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
> hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
> CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
> only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
> an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.
>

You could use parnet, I think.  I doubt the usefulness for rendering, but
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
it would give older Amiga owners AGA playback(MMMMMPEG) and a cd rom drive
accessable through parnet.  Does CD32 have a paralell port?(I think thats
what parnet uses)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5617 Re: Several posts...
11/12/93 08:00 21/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Speaking of fire(FIRE FIRE FIRE:), is fog fixed in 2.9?  For those of you who
have 2.9, please try rendering two fog objects, one in front of the other.

Also, I beleive its FOG, not Gas.  Aladin uses 'gas', and implements it quite
differently than Imagines fog.  From what I've heard, Aladins gas has true
volumetric properties.

Is brush/texture tacking implemented in 2.9?  Make an cylinder, apply a texture,
save it.  Bend the cylinder. save it as a different name.  Morph 'em.  How do
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
the textures look?  Do they 'swim'?

Hmm, what else?  Anyone play with particles?(I would have done this first!:)
What does it allow?  Whats it do for you?


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
Command:
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5618 Re:  Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 08:30 8/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>Could someone please post a more in-depth review of Imagine 2.9?

Has it been optimized for different processors(030/040)?  How much faster
does it render?  Are we still limited to 640x400?

I'd also like to here more about the audio track support.

Jason K.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5619
11/12/93 10:19 15/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Nope, I'm running bare-bones DOS, nothing in the background, just Imagine.
>  I have the same problem on both the PC AND the Amiga.
>
> Imagine is just a RAM-hog, IMHO.

*Any* 3-D package hogs memory... just like any image processor...
they're just memory-intensivce sorts of things.
--
     Gordon Schumacher

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "We apologize for the inconvenience."      _@_      |
|     Urbana          -HHGTTG                             /   \     |
|                                       kilroy was here  | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5620 CD32 as a Slave continued...
11/12/93 07:00 83/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 83 (12%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> With a sparkle in his eyes, Jeff Wahaus writes...

>> Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
>> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
>> hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
>> CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
>> only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
>> an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Carmen Rizzolo recently interjected...
> Jeff...
>
>    This is POSSIBLE, but it's not probable.  First of all, CD32 does
> not have SCSI.  Second of all, CD32 is powered by a low-end 60EC020,
> without a math co-processor.  You're not gonna get a signifigant boost
> of rendering speed from CD32 unless you're maybe used to a 68000 for
> rendering.

  Well I don't know why you think it's not probable.  A product like
Command:
I suggested would take off like sliced bread.  The CD32 does not have SCSI
but it does have an expansion bus (you know where the MPEG add on goes).
So all you need is 1 expansion card which has on it MPEG and SCSI.  Ideally
you would have MPEG, SCSI, and RAM and maybe even a math coprocessor
socket.

  As far as rendering goes, no it wouldn't be practical to use a CD32 for
rendering although it would be possible.  What you could use the CD32 for
is 24-bit to HAM6 or HAM8 conversion.  And then even HAM to ANIM
conversion.  If your rendering animation is taking 1 hour per frame then
Command:
the 14 MHz 68020 in the CD32 could easily do the above conversions in that
time.  The CD32 could even preview the completed part of the animation
while the rest is still rendering.  A program like HamLab (around 150K)
which supports using disk space as memory could be run on the CD32 without
modification.  You could control it using ARexx.  That's assuming you can
pass ARexx messages to the CD32 which would be quite possible with the
right software.

>  The MPEG would be a plus tho, as would it's display abilities as a
> near- 24-bit frame buffer.  But I think the closest you'll get to
Command:
> this idea is to get an A1200 [with some Xtra memory and an 030] and
> wait for the CD32 add-on module promised from Commodore.

  Um, well I don't want a A1200 or even an A4000.  I quite satisfied with
my Amiga 2000.  It's 5 years old now.  It has got 5 video output ports:
Monochrome Composite, Standard ECS RGB, 31KHz ECS RGB (via an A2320),
GVP's Spectrum RGB, and SVGA.  It runs at 25MHz with its 68030/68882.  Has
a bridge board with a Quantum HardCard+, dual serial ports, SVGA graphics.
It has 10MB of RAM (9MB 32-bit), fast SCSI, Quantum 120MB SCSI, Commodore
SCSI tape drive, 3 1/2" high density floppy, 5 1/4" high density floppy.
Command:
Oh yea did I mention 68000 fall back mode for old games.  And all of this
is inside the case (except the tape drive).  And there is even room for
more expansion cards and maybe even another SCSI hard disk.

  The point here is that there is no way I'm going to dump this for an
Amiga 1200.  An Amiga 4000 wouldn't come close to holding all of my
expansion cards.  A CD32 daisy chained externally to my SCSI bus would be
the perfect way to add AGA compatibility, a CD-ROM drive, and a CD32! :)

>  Myself, I've got a similar setup, but with all different equipment
Command:
> than you mentioned..  Personal Animation Recorder to play anims instead
> of MPEG and OpalVision [with OpalPaint] as a true 24-bit display device.
> It may be more expensive than the setup you suggested, but it's a
> cleaner display, broadcast quality and it's possible. :)

  The PAR will cost you about $2300 when you include the price of the
required IDE (yuk!) hard disk.  The CD32 will cost you about $300 plus
another $200 if you want MPEG.  Of course for the CD32 setup to be of any
use someone will have to write the networking software and design the CD32
to Amiga SCSI interface card for the CD32.
Command:

  The CD32 can display AGA graphics over the top of high quality MPEG video
which is something that I don't think the PAR can do.

>  Sorry to shoot your idea full of holes like that..
> Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist

Well don't be sorry, I think you just missed the target.  Aim again. :)

-Jeff Wahaus-
Command:
[e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5621 Still more on CD32 as a Slave
11/12/93 07:40 52/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 52 (19%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Another unbeliever recently wrote:

> A SCSI interface won't let you control CD32 remotely... you'd be lucky
> if you just get the CD-ROM drive in CD32 working on other Amiga.

  I must disagree here, a SCSI interface and properly written SCSI based
networking software would allow you to do whatever you wanted.  This is
assuming that you were a skilled enough programmer to write such a thing.
It just so happens that I am. ;->

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

> Also, as for using CD32 as a 'rendering' engine, 68020 isn't too
> fast and CD32 doesn't have math coprocessor.

  I don't think I mentioned anything about using the CD32 as a rendering
engine (which is possible).  It could be used to do lots of other useful
things though, like playing a MPEG animation in 24-bit color for example.


> If you want to get CD-ROM capability that bad, just buy a CD-ROM drive
Command:
> or just get CD32.  Why all the trouble?  Nobody's going to bother
> buying CD32 FOR THEIR AMIGA.  Weird thought...

  Actually I was speaking of doing just that.  You purchase a CD32 and a
SCSI adapter for it (assuming someone makes one) and you have:

  (1) A double speed CD-ROM disk drive
  (2) A CD32 (of course)
  (3) A slave computer capable of running off the shelf Amiga Software.
  (4) Optional hardware MPEG support
Command:

  You will not be able to run CD32 software if you just get any CD-ROM
drive.  Also, why would you want a CD32 if you couldn't access standard
format CD-ROM's with your Amiga?


> The MPEG is another issue... Commodore will have FMV module for every
> (ok, some) Amiga in the future soon or later, so this isn't necessary.

  Did you use the words "Commodore" and "soon" in the same sentence?
Command:
Actually using any of the words "soon", "shortly", "quickly", or "next
month" in the same sentence with "Commodore" is an oxymoron and should be
avoided.

> Dream on!  :)

Hieratic!

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5622 Another Imagine 2.9 Q
11/12/93 09:43 5/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Oh yeah.. Could someone tell me how the Field rendering is in Imagine 2.9
now?  Someone with single-frame abilities or a PAR?  Thanks!

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5623 Re: CD32 and Imagine
11/12/93 09:27 30/ [e-mail] (Phil Martin u)
Lines 1 to 10 of 30 (33%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> >   Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
> > use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
> > hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
> > CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
> > only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
> > an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.
> >
>
> You could use parnet, I think.  I doubt the usefulness for rendering, but
> it would give older Amiga owners AGA playback(MMMMMPEG) and a cd rom drive
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> accessable through parnet.  Does CD32 have a paralell port?(I think thats
> what parnet uses)

No, it doesn't have a parallel port, but it does have a multi-purpose
serial port. In any case, this isn't what he meant. The CD32 has a
'Bus slot' type of thing in the back that you could probably hook
up to a SCSI controller somehow to use as a _very_ high speed link
between them (Megs/second instead of 10s of K/second). Specialized
software would be needed on both sides, but with an ARexx port this
sort of think could be dead useful.
Command:

>
>
> Tom Setzer
> [e-mail]
>
> "And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
> intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
>
Phil Martin.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5624 CD32 as a Slave continued
11/12/93 10:06 58/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 10 of 58 (17%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>  Well I don't know why you think it's not probable.

Ok, not improbable, IMPOSSIBLE.

>The CD32 does not have SCSI
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
And that's EXACTLY WHY it makes so tricky to make such hardware... and the
CD-ROM drive used in CD32 is NOT SCSI!  Get it?  NOT SCSI!

>  As far as rendering goes, no it wouldn't be practical to use a CD32 for
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>rendering although it would be possible.  What you could use the CD32 for
>is 24-bit to HAM6 or HAM8 conversion.  And then even HAM to ANIM
>conversion.

Why bother?  If you have 68030 already, it's a LOT faster at doing image
conversion than 68020 that CD32 has!

[stuff about how much things you have on your A2000 deleted]

>  The point here is that there is no way I'm going to dump this for an
Command:
>Amiga 1200.  An Amiga 4000 wouldn't come close to holding all of my
>expansion cards.

Of course it WOULD!  According to what you said, you are using 3 Zorro slots
(Bridgeboard, Spectrum, dual serial) 2 internal 3.5" bays and 1 internal
5.25" bay... which WILL fit into A4000 without any problem.

>A CD32 daisy chained externally to my SCSI bus would be
>the perfect way to add AGA compatibility, a CD-ROM drive, and a CD32! :)

Command:
Ya, ya.. dream on...

Remember, this is different from A500 expansion chassis with SCSI interface
because CD32's CD-ROM drive is NOT on the SCSI chain.

Also, just by having a SCSI interface on CD32 does not guarantee that you
will be able to access the CD-ROM drive from another Amiga with SCSI
controller (because of two SCSI host conflict situation).

>  The PAR will cost you about $2300 when you include the price of the
Command:
>required IDE (yuk!) hard disk.  The CD32 will cost you about $300 plus
>another $200 if you want MPEG.

However, it will never work... so people take PAR. (not that I'm thinking that
PAR is the best solution)

>Well don't be sorry, I think you just missed the target.  Aim again. :)

Mr. Rizzolo hit the target right on the bull's eye.... it's just that you
can't face the reality.
Command:

+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Roy Park            | C=      A3000@25Mhz-14.4HST-2MBPicassoII|
|[e-mail] |   //  DM3024-ST296N-LP240S-LP240S-LP105S|
|[e-mail]       | \X/ ViewSonic17-2MBChip/12MBFast-Emplant|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5625 Re: CD32 and Imagine
11/12/93 09:25 27/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>>   Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
>> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
>> hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
>> CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
>> only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
>> an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.

> You could use parnet, I think.  I doubt the usefulness for rendering, but
> it would give older Amiga owners AGA playback(MMMMMPEG) and a cd rom drive
> accessable through parnet.  Does CD32 have a paralell port?(I think thats
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> what parnet uses)
>
> Tom Setzer
> [e-mail]

  I don't believe the CD32 has a paralell port.  If one were added via
expansion then ParNet could be used but I think it would be too slow to
be very useful.  The maximum transfer speed of the Amiga's parallel port
is less than 60K bytes per second.  Plus then you loose your printer.

Command:
  I think SCSI would be the best way to implement this sort of thing.  The
CD32 should be able to transfer about 1.5M bytes per second with a properly
designed SCSI interface.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5626 Re:  Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 11:48 17/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Has it been optimized for different processors(030/040)?  How much faster
> does it render?  Are we still limited to 640x400?

Howzat?  Limited to 640x400?  Since when?

I've rendered plenty of images at 1280x1024, and I think Imagine has no
internal limit.  I recall setting the image size at up to 4000x4000
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
before, and Imagine accepted it just fine.  I always render final images
in 1280x1024 or 896x628.  640x400, heck, that's *preview* resolution :-)

Either your Imagine is a lot different than mine, or you meant something
else by "limited to 640x400" and I'm completely missing your point.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5627 New Speed
11/11/93 14:58 12/ [e-mail] (Yury German)
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
So with a few people gettign 2.9 on PC's and soon the rest will start
gettign 3.0 and such we still do not know about one thing@!!!!!


HOW IS THE RENDERING SPEED??????

I mean we all learned (or were taught) some tricks for speeding up the
rendering but it was still not close to Lightwaves speed in 2.0. So
basically can one of you new 2.9 - 3.0 people render and let us know if
there is a speed increase??? It is pretty important for all of us..
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
considering the extended rendering time with Imagine

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5628 Re: CD32 and Imagine
11/12/93 12:08 61/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
Lines 1 to 10 of 61 (16%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

     The CD32 doesn't have a parallel port.  There was a photograph of the
motherboard in a recent Amiga magazine, forget which one right now.  Anyway,
it does have a big "expansion" connector, or more accurately, edge card
connection.  The only thing that Commodore will fess up to is that it will
have a keyboard and disk drive expansion that hooks up to that edge card.
 The disk drive is being provided strictly for game saves.  Commodore is
taking the official position that the CD32 is a game machine, period.
 Apparently, Commodore's attempt to promote the CDTV as a multimedia,
information database, game, educational, multipurpose machine that could be
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
expanded to become a computer, too (A500), confused and perplexed the mass
market so almost nobody bought it.  Now, Commodore is saying, " The game
comes on a compact disk, put it in and play!", hoping the mass market will
understand that much.
   Anyway, I heard that Fred Fish was at the World of Commodore in Berlin,
with a CD32 with the keyboard expansion and he has found out that some C++
development program WILL run on the CD32, as is.  So, there is the
possibility that Imagine could run on the CD32 directly, especially if the
disk drive comes out.  The CD32 is basically a stripped down A1200 anyway,
AGA chipset, 2 MB of RAM, although it does have a special chunky-to-planar
Command:
chip which may make for some graphics incompatibilities.  Don't really see
the point in running Imagine on the CD32 anyway, even if it were possible.
 The CD32 has a pretty slow 68020 and the RAM is fixed.  Too many
limitations.  The really positive outcome is that the CD-ROM is supposed to
become available for the Amiga computer late this year or early next year.
 The CD-ROM drive is a double speed, faster access type.  Commodore
developed a special version of Workbench to control the drive and they are
supposed to be in negotiation with Kodak to include Kodak-CD compatibility.
 So, Commodore is saying that they will probably be coming out with a new
Workbench which will include the CD-ROM additions.  Lew Eggebrecht is also
Command:
saying that the next Workbench will not only put a speech synthesizer
program back in (but not Say) and it will be multi-lingual.
  OK, this doesn't have anything to do with Imagine so I better stop wasting
bandwidth.  It would be nice to have some kind of high-speed rendering
engine, though.  Warp, Screamer, Resolver, Excalibur ..... ?
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: Re: CD32 and Imagine
Date: Friday, November 12, 1993 9:37AM
Command:

>
>   Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
> hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
> CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
> only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
> an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.
>

Command:
You could use parnet, I think.  I doubt the usefulness for rendering, but
it would give older Amiga owners AGA playback(MMMMMPEG) and a cd rom drive
accessable through parnet.  Does CD32 have a paralell port?(I think thats
what parnet uses)


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
Command:
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5629 Re: Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 12:53 12/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Either your Imagine is a lot different than mine, or you meant something
> else by "limited to 640x400" and I'm completely missing your point.

Yup... he meant working res.
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "We apologize for the inconvenience."      _@_      |
|     Urbana          -HHGTTG                             /   \     |
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
|                                       kilroy was here  | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5630 Re: CD32 as a Slave continued...
11/12/93 12:38 47/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 47 (21%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Jeff Wahaus,

    I don't blame you for not wanting to get an A1200 or A4000.  I also have
an Amiga stuffed with cards and drives.  For the same reason I wouldn't get
one.  I never suggested you dump your system in favor of an A1200.  I
was saying that getting an A1200 would be much more probable because there
are options like adding memory, speed and SCSI [I think] that would allow you
to have an AGA buffer and eventually MPEG.  CD^32 is being marketed [Did I
say marketed?] as mainly a game machine.  I don't think you'll be seeing
a SCSI/RAM/Accelorator card for CD^32 for quite a while.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

>   The PAR will cost you about $2300 when you include the price of the
> required IDE (yuk!) hard disk.  The CD32 will cost you about $300 plus
> another $200 if you want MPEG.  Of course for the CD32 setup to be of any
> use someone will have to write the networking software and design the CD32
> to Amiga SCSI interface card for the CD32.

    Again, I don't think you'll be seeing SCSI on CD32 for a while.. But
besides that...
    I think that MPEG attatchment is $400.  The MPEG will get you VHS quality
Command:
output at best.  While a PAR will get you D2 quality output.. Something you
can use to sell your animations for a decent price.  I have one, and it's
fantastic.  I'd never use an IDE drive for my operating system, but for the
PAR it's doing it's job well, and it's completely seperated from the rest of
the Amiga's operating system.

>   The CD32 can display AGA graphics over the top of high quality MPEG video
> which is something that I don't think the PAR can do.

This is true.. But I'll be using the OpalVision's Video processor for that..
Command:
Treating the PAR as a deck and overlaying titles and such on the anims..


CR> Sorry to shoot your idea full of holes like that..

> Well don't be sorry, I think you just missed the target.  Aim again. :)

How's that?  I didn't miss the target.  I made my point.  You can spend
$300 for CD32, $2-400 for MPEG and another $500 or so for your SCSI-RAM-
Accelorator expansion slot and you'll get nice VHS output.  CD32 may have a
Command:
S-VHS output, but MPEG artifacting can be comparable to the amount of
artifacting that VHS introduces.  Then again, you get get a PAR with a
required IDE (yuk!) Hard Disk, get the same results at fabulous quality for
only around a grand more.

Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5631 Re:  Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 13:23 13/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

In a fit of stupidity, I wrote:

> Either your Imagine is a lot different than mine, or you meant
> something else by "limited to 640x400" and I'm completely missing your
> point.

Turns out the latter is true.  He obviously meant "promoting Imagine's
screen to more than 640x400", not "rendering to more than 640x400".

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
I hope they fixed that too.

   - steve (mr. stupid) k
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5632 Arexx Programming
11/12/93 13:44 13/ "Mr. Scott Krehbiel" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Hi Peoples
Sorry to post something pretty far off-topics, but could someone help
me to load the ArexxMathLib??  I don't know the proper offset and version
parameters to perform the Addlib command.  The documentation doesn't help.
Is the offset parameter an obsolete remnant of 1.3 (which I'm still using)
that the Abacus guys threw in their book???

Thanks
Scott
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Please reply to me directly to avoid further noise on the list.
(I would have used News, but for some reason, I can't post)
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5633 Re: Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 13:27 32/ Trin Yuthasastrackosol <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 32 (31%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
On Fri, 12 Nov 1993, Steve Koren wrote:

>
> Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> > Has it been optimized for different processors(030/040)?  How much faster
> > does it render?  Are we still limited to 640x400?
>
> Howzat?  Limited to 640x400?  Since when?
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

[Stuff deleted for the sake of brevity]

> Either your Imagine is a lot different than mine, or you meant something
> else by "limited to 640x400" and I'm completely missing your point.

I think he means the resolution at which you can use Imagine in it's
various editors. Some people like to have the capability to work in screens
much larger than 640 x 400 or whatever, particularly those with the new
graphics boards like Picasso, Spectrum etc...You can do it with Imagine
Command:
2.0 by patching some bytes here and there, but the program has some trouble
working in the larger modes (I *THINK*...i remember reading the thread on
here not long ago but my memory gets worse and worse as I approach age 30
(^:). It would be pretty nice if the size could be easily configured.


Trin Dominic Yuthasastrakosol           | Definition: Bigot (noun). Someone
Dept. Pharmacology and Therapeutics     | who zealously holds a set of ideas,
University of Manitoba                  | beliefs or opinions which are
A5002MbChip1MbFastSupraturbo28GVPII354Mb| different from yours.
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5634 Yet another unbeliever (CD32 as a Slave)
11/12/93 11:59 67/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 67 (14%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Roy Park recently muttered:

> Ok, not improbable, IMPOSSIBLE.

  It only seems impossible to close minded (or ignorant) people.

>>The CD32 does not have SCSI
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> And that's EXACTLY WHY it makes so tricky to make such hardware... and the
> CD-ROM drive used in CD32 is NOT SCSI!  Get it?  NOT SCSI!
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

  It does not matter that the CD-ROM drive in the CD32 is not SCSI
internally.  It is possible to read data from the CD-ROM drive into
the CD32's memory and then transfer from memory over a SCSI bus to
another computer.  Understand yet?


> Why bother?  If you have 68030 already, it's a LOT faster at doing image
> conversion than 68020 that CD32 has!

Command:
  I think your missing the point here.  You are using the host computer's
CPU for rendering.  If you also use the host computer's CPU for image
conversion then you will significantly slow down the rendering.


>> An Amiga 4000 wouldn't come close to holding all of my expansion cards.

> Of course it WOULD!  According to what you said, you are using 3 Zorro slots
> (Bridgeboard, Spectrum, dual serial) 2 internal 3.5" bays and 1 internal
> 5.25" bay... which WILL fit into A4000 without any problem.
Command:

make that 3 ISA cards, 1 ISA/Zorro card, 1 Zorro card, 1 Video slot card,
and 1 CPU card.  Thats 7 boards total and I still have 2 empty slots.
The Amiga 4000 can only hold 4 cards at one time.


> Remember, this is different from A500 expansion chassis with SCSI interface
> because CD32's CD-ROM drive is NOT on the SCSI chain.
> Also, just by having a SCSI interface on CD32 does not guarantee that you
> will be able to access the CD-ROM drive from another Amiga with SCSI
Command:
> controller (because of two SCSI host conflict situation).

  I dosen't matter if the CD32's CD-ROM uses a fiber optic interface.  The
driver software could make the CD32 look like a standard SCSI drive to the
host computer.  Your not altering the CD32 to CD-ROM interface at all.
  As far a SCSI conflict, like I stated before, the CD32 would be
implemented as a SLAVE SCSI device NOT a controller.

> However, it will never work... so people take PAR. (not that I'm thinking that
> PAR is the best solution)
Command:

  How did this turn into a discussion about PAR.  PAR is great. PAR is
expensive.  PAR is for people who make a living at computer animation.
This discussion is about adding a CD-ROM drive to your computer.  In this
case the drive is a CD32 and it happens to come with some neat extras.

> Mr. Rizzolo hit the target right on the bull's eye.... it's just that you
> can't face the reality.

  Actually I can not not face reality.  It only takes time for an idea
Command:
to become reality.  I never had a question as to whether or not it is
possible for this idea to become reality, I know that it is possible.
The only real question is whether or not someone will do it.

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5635 Imagine 2.9 Questions
11/12/93 14:11 27/ Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi All,

     Just a few short questions about Imagine 2.9 that I have not seen asked:

1:  Is the Amiga Version out yet?

2:  If yes to #1, does it load v2.0 objects?

3:  Does it use Essence I & II textures on 2.0 objects?

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
4:  Does it use Essence I & II at all????

5:  Does it load v2.0 stage files?


Thats 'bout it. Take care All, and keep rendering. Kudos (spelling?) to
Essence II, FANTASTIC product!!!!!!!!

                                                    Scott Lundholm

Command:
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at | Email (UNIX)[e-mail] |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                Memeber                 |
 | Bay w/105 & 450 Meg Hard Drives,  |   Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group     |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  | Imagine 2.0 rendering enthusiast and   |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  | graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5636 Still more on CD32 as a S
11/12/93 15:02 46/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 10 of 46 (21%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>  I must disagree here, a SCSI interface and properly written SCSI based
>networking software would allow you to do whatever you wanted.  This is
>assuming that you were a skilled enough programmer to write such a thing.
>It just so happens that I am. ;->

And I can reformat your Amiga from here since I'm a very good programmer!

Enough of this non-sense!

>  I don't think I mentioned anything about using the CD32 as a rendering
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>engine (which is possible).  It could be used to do lots of other useful
>things though, like playing a MPEG animation in 24-bit color for example.

Yes, No, No.

>  Actually I was speaking of doing just that.  You purchase a CD32 and a
>SCSI adapter for it (assuming someone makes one) and you have:
>
>  (1) A double speed CD-ROM disk drive
>  (2) A CD32 (of course)
Command:
>  (3) A slave computer capable of running off the shelf Amiga Software.
>  (4) Optional hardware MPEG support
>
>  You will not be able to run CD32 software if you just get any CD-ROM
>drive.  Also, why would you want a CD32 if you couldn't access standard
>format CD-ROM's with your Amiga?

And since when is 'SCSI' used for networking?

>> The MPEG is another issue... Commodore will have FMV module for every
Command:
>> (ok, some) Amiga in the future soon or later, so this isn't necessary.
>
>  Did you use the words "Commodore" and "soon" in the same sentence?
>Actually using any of the words "soon", "shortly", "quickly", or "next
>month" in the same sentence with "Commodore" is an oxymoron and should be
>avoided.

Read damn it!  I said 'soon' OR 'later'.

+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:
|Roy Park            | C=      A3000@25Mhz-14.4HST-2MBPicassoII|
|[e-mail] |   //  DM3024-ST296N-LP240S-LP240S-LP105S|
|[e-mail]       | \X/ ViewSonic17-2MBChip/12MBFast-Emplant|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5637 Re: CD32 and Imagine
11/12/93 15:09 15/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>  I think SCSI would be the best way to implement this sort of thing.  The
>CD32 should be able to transfer about 1.5M bytes per second with a properly
>designed SCSI interface.

If you want a POSSIBLE and FEASIBLE solution, it would be to have Ethernet
interface for CD32... it doesn't cost that much on hardware over the price
of SCSI (whatever, the one you are suggesting) interface.

+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Roy Park            | C=      A3000@25Mhz-14.4HST-2MBPicassoII|
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
|[e-mail] |   //  DM3024-ST296N-LP240S-LP240S-LP105S|
|[e-mail]       | \X/ ViewSonic17-2MBChip/12MBFast-Emplant|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5638 Yet another unbeliever (C
11/12/93 15:32 75/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 10 of 75 (13%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>  It only seems impossible to close minded (or ignorant) people.

It only seems possible to stupid (or idiotic) people.

>  It does not matter that the CD-ROM drive in the CD32 is not SCSI
>internally.  It is possible to read data from the CD-ROM drive into
>the CD32's memory and then transfer from memory over a SCSI bus to
>another computer.  Understand yet?

And that's called networking support at the OS level...  yeah, maybe if you
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
worked for Commodore and re-write AmigaOS, then we might.  BTW, I remember
you calling yourself 'a very good programmer'... is there some sort of
proof to back it up?

>  I think your missing the point here.  You are using the host computer's
>CPU for rendering.  If you also use the host computer's CPU for image
>conversion then you will significantly slow down the rendering.

Ok, try this home:  render THREE Carmen Rizzolo's 1701D objects using
raytracing, and save it as HAM... make sure to time it.  Now, do the same
Command:
thing, but this time render it as 24-bit picture, take it over to ADPro
and convert it to HAM.

Try this for 60 frames and tell me the time difference!  (do you have a
slightest idea what I'm trying to get here?  I'm sure everyone else here
knows what I'm trying to say)

>make that 3 ISA cards, 1 ISA/Zorro card, 1 Zorro card, 1 Video slot card,
>and 1 CPU card.  Thats 7 boards total and I still have 2 empty slots.
>The Amiga 4000 can only hold 4 cards at one time.
Command:

HUH?  Your Amiga 2000 has EIGHT (3+1+1+1+2 empty) slots (w/o processor slot)
while everyone else's Amiga 2000 has only 5?

>  I dosen't matter if the CD32's CD-ROM uses a fiber optic interface.  The
>driver software could make the CD32 look like a standard SCSI drive to the
>host computer.  Your not altering the CD32 to CD-ROM interface at all.
>  As far a SCSI conflict, like I stated before, the CD32 would be
>implemented as a SLAVE SCSI device NOT a controller.

Command:
You don't get it... do you?  Why would I say there will be a 'conflict' if
CD-ROM drive only belonged on one SCSI chain (although the CD32's drive
doesn't really belong on ANY SCSI chain!)

>  How did this turn into a discussion about PAR.  PAR is great. PAR is
>expensive.  PAR is for people who make a living at computer animation.
>This discussion is about adding a CD-ROM drive to your computer.  In this
>case the drive is a CD32 and it happens to come with some neat extras.

Perhaps I should quote you further back into the past next time... you were
Command:
the one who was babbling about how PAR is inferior to YOUR MAGICAL SCSI
INTERFACE.

>  Actually I can not not face reality.  It only takes time for an idea

You can not not not not not not not not not not not face reality.

>to become reality.  I never had a question as to whether or not it is
>possible for this idea to become reality, I know that it is possible.
                                             ^^^^
Command:
Ok then... tell me about your hardware EXPERT knowledge, the background, and
experience.  Then I MIGHT believe you.

>The only real question is whether or not someone will do it.

In this case, NO ONE will.... not because they don't want to, but they CAN'T.
(not through SCSI!)

+--------------------------------------------------------------+
|Roy Park            | C=      A3000@25Mhz-14.4HST-2MBPicassoII|
Command:
|[e-mail] |   //  DM3024-ST296N-LP240S-LP240S-LP105S|
|[e-mail]       | \X/ ViewSonic17-2MBChip/12MBFast-Emplant|
+--------------------------------------------------------------+


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5639 Yet another unbeliever (C
11/12/93 21:34 43/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 43 (23%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
[e-mail] (Roy Park) writes:
> Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
> In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
> Date:         Fri, 12 Nov 1993 18:32:00 -0500
> Organization: CRS Online  (Toronto, Ontario)
>
> >  It only seems impossible to close minded (or ignorant) people.
>
> It only seems possible to stupid (or idiotic) people.
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> >  It does not matter that the CD-ROM drive in the CD32 is not SCSI
> >internally.  It is possible to read data from the CD-ROM drive into
> >the CD32's memory and then transfer from memory over a SCSI bus to
> >another computer.  Understand yet?
>
> And that's called networking support at the OS level...  yeah, maybe if you
> worked for Commodore and re-write AmigaOS, then we might.

AmigaDOS is perhaps one of the better designed operating systems for doing
such stuff because it's well documented and has native support for devices
Command:
and handlers.  Why would you need to "rewrite the O/S?" unless you are not
able to read the RKRMs?

> >The only real question is whether or not someone will do it.
>
> In this case, NO ONE will.... not because they don't want to, but they CAN'T.
> (not through SCSI!)

Ah, and parallel ports are only for printing, right?  ParNet (a network
using the parallel port) is just someone's pipedream?  Come on!  SCSI is a
Command:
data transmission bus designed primarily for communication between a host
adapter and a disk drive.  There is no reason in the world why a SCSI bus
could not serve a network, given the appropriate drivers on both ends.
        Don't claim something is impossible when you don't really know.  If
you can't do it, that does not mean it is impossible.  There are people who
know more and can do more than you.  Bet on that.

On afterthought, I apologize to those who are as fed up with this topic as
I.  Why are there so many "nay sayers" around?  Maybe because that's all
they have to contribute? <sigh>
Command:

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5640 Re:  Imagine v2.9
11/12/93 21:54 8/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>Howzat?  Limited to 640x400?  Since when?
>
>I've rendered plenty of images at 1280x1024, and I think Imagine has no

I'm asking about the work screen size not the rendering output.  I'd like to
be able to work on a screen larger than 640x400.

Jason K.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5641 Re: Imagine pc-help
11/12/93 23:35 27/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Wed, 10 Nov 1993, Udo K Schuermann wrote:

> Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]> writes:
> > I have found that you would need about 12 Meg to render a scene with
> > about 20000 faces. This is on the Amiga.
>
> This is by no means universally applicable, as CastleRoom consisted of more
> than 20000 faces and rendered in less than 6MB of RAM.  That was with a
> fair bit of refraction and reflection, including three light sources and
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> two bitmap images.  There are many more factors involved than just #faces,
> although I'd be hard pressed to enumerate them all.
>
>  ._.  Udo Schuermann
>  ( )  [e-mail]
>
Ok, well that is strange. The object I created (a huge group actually),
had no textures, no refractions, some parts had minimal reflection settings.
Many didn't use Phong. Couldn't be simpler, render engine wise (hard to
model thanks to multiple layers though).
Command:

Maybe because I rendered everything in Scanline ? The object was 1.2M in
size.

Nik.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5642 Re: Upgrade and Giveaway
11/12/93 23:44 25/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 25 (40%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Wed, 10 Nov 1993, Jeff Saffold wrote:

>
> > And speaking of questions, the Amiga Formatters are showing up in
> > amiga.graphics and starting to ask all sorts of elementary things that the
> > manual would have even answered.  They even have the nerve to complain about
> > the program!  They'll discover us soon enough so I'm going back into hiding
> > now.
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> Well, I just talked to Impulse, and they said that the AF Upgrade
> offer was ONLY for the European people, not for the American/NTSC
> users...  So anyone wanting to go that route is SOL...:)
>
>      // Jeff Saffold
>    \X/ Only the Amiga makes it possible.
I wonder what they'll say about Australians. No one ever thinks of the
market here and yet Imagine is the no.1 Amiga 3D program here (Real 3D is
fast caching up). BTW we use PAL so I wonder what Impulse will do.
Not that I care either way since I'm waiting for 'almost 3.0'.
Command:
Speaking of which, has Amiga version shipped yet ?

Nik.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5643 Re: New Speed
11/13/93 00:13 34/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Thu, 11 Nov 1993, Yury German wrote:

> So with a few people gettign 2.9 on PC's and soon the rest will start
> gettign 3.0 and such we still do not know about one thing@!!!!!
>
>
> HOW IS THE RENDERING SPEED??????
>
> I mean we all learned (or were taught) some tricks for speeding up the
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> rendering but it was still not close to Lightwaves speed in 2.0. So
> basically can one of you new 2.9 - 3.0 people render and let us know if
> there is a speed increase??? It is pretty important for all of us..
> considering the extended rendering time with Imagine
>
>
Well, someone on here said that the Amiga version of Imagine 2.9 will not
be optimized for '040. They 'may' optimize v 3.0.
Great! Everyone else can do it but not Impulse! They'll probably tell us
to get a PC if we want more speed. I don't wanna do that. I know that
Command:
they can optimize Imagine after some speed tests I've done. LW has been
optimized, Real 3D will be as of v2.40. So, I think that it is time for
all the '040 owners (and '030) to contact Impulse and let them know that
we'd like to see this happen to Imagine. Imagine started on the Amiga and
its original users should be properly supported.

Anyway, that is my two cents worth, so it is up to all of you guys to act
now before it is too late.

I intend to. (Can someone repost that Fax no. of Impulse please ?)
Command:

Nik.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5644 Re: Imagine v2.9
11/13/93 09:23 13/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

On Sat, 13 Nov 1993, Jason B Koszarsky wrote:

> I'm asking about the work screen size not the rendering output.  I'd like to
> be able to work on a screen larger than 640x400.

PC Imagine 2.9's native screen size is 640 x 480.  If that helps.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5645 Question: IMAGINE vs 3DS ?
11/13/93 10:26 26/ "Janusz Kalinowski" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi IMAGINE gurus !

I  consider  buying  some  flexible  3D  program  which   include
(serious) modelling, rendering and professional animation (on the
486-based machine). I'd like to use it BOTH to create non-trivial
3D  models  for  further  realistic  rendering  (by  third  party
renderers)  and,  independently, for nice  animation  (I  suppose
simpler models will be used then).
I  was almost decided on 3D Studio, but in some Ray Tracing  News
I've found info about PC version of IMAGINE. I know nothing about
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
that program except that, what was written in RTN.

Could you pass me a bit more info about possibilities of IMAGINE?
Especially, does it include professional modeller ? What are  the
pros/cons   comparing  to  3D  Studio  ?  What  is  the   current
version/price ? Is there some ftp-able IMAGINE demo ?

Aswer directly to me PLEASE. As I'm not (yet?) IMAGINE user,  I'm
NOT subscribed to this list.

Command:
many thanks,

Janusz Kalinowski
Technical University of Wroclaw, Poland
Computing-Science Center

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5646 Re: Imagine pc-help
11/13/93 08:04 26/ Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]> writes
> On Wed, 10 Nov 1993, Udo K Schuermann wrote:
>
> > Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]> writes:
> > > I have found that you would need about 12 Meg to render a scene with
> > > about 20000 faces. This is on the Amiga.
> >
> > This is by no means universally applicable, as CastleRoom consisted of more
> > than 20000 faces and rendered in less than 6MB of RAM.  That was with a
> > fair bit of refraction and reflection, including three light sources and
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> > two bitmap images.  There are many more factors involved than just #faces,
> > although I'd be hard pressed to enumerate them all.
> >
> Ok, well that is strange. The object I created (a huge group actually),
> had no textures, no refractions, some parts had minimal reflection settings.
> Many didn't use Phong. Couldn't be simpler, render engine wise (hard to
> model thanks to multiple layers though).
>
> Maybe because I rendered everything in Scanline ? The object was 1.2M in
> size.
Command:

That would explain it.  Scanline is hungrier than rayrace; my scene
was raytraced because of reflection, refractions, and the shadows.

 ._.  Udo Schuermann
 ( )  [e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5647 Another "enough already"
11/13/93 16:18 9/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Hey.  Enough of the crap about the CD32 thing!  If you're gonna do
        the "I know more about this than you" thing, please do it via
        E-mail, and NOT in the Mailing List.
steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
                        -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5648 Re: Yet another unbelieve
11/13/93 01:37 6/ j#d#[e-mail] (J. Moore)
Lines 1 to 6 of 6 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
RP> You can not not not not not not not not not not not face reality.
Cr> Roy Park

Roy, you're babbling again.

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] *
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5649 Re:  Imagine v2.9
11/13/93 03:23 19/ [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hello Steve Koren,On 12 NOV 1993 12:48:49 you said regarding Re:  Imagine v2.9:

> > Has it been optimized for different processors(030/040)?  How much faster
> > does it render?  Are we still limited to 640x400?
>
> Howzat?  Limited to 640x400?  Since when?
>
> Either your Imagine is a lot different than mine, or you meant something
> else by "limited to 640x400" and I'm completely missing your point.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
I think he means the window the editor opens.  Which has always been limited to
640x400. Although I'm now running it in 800x600 on my Piccolo. No weird crashes
yet. Although dragging an object erases the grid. 'Redraw' helps restoring it.

-- __
--/_/ |/ ------------+--Main  : [e-mail]-
-/aul |\olenbrander--+--Spare : [e-mail]---
---------------------+-----------------------------------
-Reg. CD32 developer-+-A4000/040&A3000. Best of 2 worlds-
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5650 Re: Yet another unbelieve
11/14/93 13:20 5/ [e-mail] (Roy Park)
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>Roy, you're babbling again.

Ya ya, you know me.


-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5651 Re: Yet another unbelieve
11/14/93 17:03 26/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> >Roy, you're babbling again.
>
> Ya ya, you know me.

WILL ALL OF YOU PLEASE TAKE THIS TO EMAIL?!?!?

Look, I only use Imagine for myself, not for profit, but I hope to get more
out of this mailing list than yet another example that humanity can be very
stupid at times...

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
This does not benefit me in the least - I get enough of it in Real Life.
And if I really want to get it electronically, I can just go to one of the
comp.advocacy groups.

So ***ENOUGH***!  Show that you *both* have some intelligence and STOP
RESPONDING!

With hope,
--
     Gordon Schumacher
Command:

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "We apologize for the inconvenience."      _@_      |
|     Urbana          -HHGTTG                             /   \     |
|                                       kilroy was here  | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5652 More on 2.9 new stuff
11/15/93 10:06 21/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
I have continued my experimentation with 2.9.  Upon the recomendation of
others, I have tried to play with the Particle feature.  I added a sphere,
and then chose particle.  Chose to inscribe random size particles and
perform.  It worked.  I quick rendered it and I had a tight ball of
particles.  Neat!

I have also been playing with the spline editor.  This is nice!  It
supports postscript fonts.  Load the font, type the text, then you have a
spline outline of the letters.  Choose add points and tell the kind of
beveling.  Viola!  You have an object that can be loaded into the detail
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
editor.  The KNOTS can be modified.  Interesting stuff.

I am not an expert at using Imagine, so I sure I'm not pushing this.  I
have not tried any of the cycle editor stuff

 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Cliff Lee
 [e-mail]
 "Everything will work out if you let it!" Cheap Trick

Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5653 More 2.9 questions
11/15/93 11:07 36/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 36 (27%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Cliff Lee wrote:

> I have continued my experimentation with 2.9.  Upon the recomendation of
> others, I have tried to play with the Particle feature.  I added a sphere,

Some questions for anyone who has 2.9.  BTW, apologies in advance if
some of these have been answered already and I missed them.

  * First and foremost: Does Essence work?  As I consider Imagine
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
    without Essence near worthless, I won't upgrade if it doesn't.  (I
    know they have supposedly added more textures, but I doubt they'll
    add equivalents of all the ones I use from Essence).

  * Have they fixed any of the transparency bugs?

  * As someone else asked previously (and I misinterpreted), can
    Imagine's screen be promoted to better resolutions without crashing
    Imagine?  Does it support the display database directly?

Command:
  * Do shadows in scanline work right?

  * Is Imagine any more multi-threaded than it was in 2.0?  I always end
    up running two copies of Imagine at once; one to render and one to
    model.  Even if they compiled with the "pure" bit so that the
    overhead of two concurrent Imagines was less, I'd be happy.  But a
    true render-while-modeling ability would be nicer.

  * I desperately want Aladdin 4-like gas handling.  Is there anything
    in 2.9 which will help?  (Fog objects are a real pain for this and
Command:
    have many limitations that true volumetric gasses don't have).  I've
    actually considered buying Aladdin to augment Imagine in this area,
    since it seems to have wonderful abilities with gasses.  If it was
    $75 or so cheaper I'd have done it by now.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5654 Trace time vs scanline
11/15/93 09:44 41/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
Lines 1 to 10 of 41 (24%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Hello there, Imagineers!
   I have been working on an animation with an undersea scenario.  I am
using a 3D landscape imported from VistaPro3, with bump texture and a 24-bit
sandstone brushmap, as the ocean floor.  This object is about 500K.  I have
several buildings including a Greek temple, and a couple other architectural
objects representing a "lost" city on the ocean bottom, ala Atlantis.  They
range from 100K to 300K each.  I have a submarine traveling over the bottom,
it is about 300K.  In addition, I have a Plane object acting as the ocean
surface over the whole landscape.  This Plane has a seawave texture applied
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
to it.  I also have several of these morphing over time so I get wave
motion.  At this time, I am experimenting with a Plane object in front of
the camera with a linear Ripple texture applied to it.  In addition, I have
the Global fog attribute set so the background fades off.
   So, I tried all this in Scanline, and found out that I was getting no
refraction, ripple, or shadowing, as obviously stated for Scanline mode.
 But, it was taking only about 3 to 5 minutes per frame.  Since I found out
that I couldn't get the desired water effects with Scanline mode, I went to
Trace.  Now, it is taking over 9 HOURS per frame to render!  While the
effects are working now, pretty close to what I wanted, the render time is
Command:
just too long.  At this rate, it will take a month to render 100 frames or
about 4 seconds of animation.
   I am running an A3000 with a 25 MHz '040 accelerator, 14 Megs of RAM, 213
Megabyte Maxtor harddrive, 52 Meg Quantum HD.  The Maxtor  is averaging
about 500KB/sec transfer rate.  I have Imagine on this drive. The Quantum
averages about 1 MB/sec after using TurboQuantum but it is my system disk
and I don't have room on it for Imagine. I have tried cutting up my
landscape object in smaller sections, placing them just when I needed them
in the camera's field of view, but then I get a "chopped off" look.
  I guess my question is, if this is a typical time for Trace rendering
Command:
based on the number and size of the objects I am using and the amount of
textures being applied?  I am thinking about getting a RAM expansion board
which would cut down on the Hardrive access time.  Other than that, is there
anything obvious or simple I could be doing to reduce my rendering time?  I
do have the Global size attribute set for 0,0,0.  I guess most of my render
time is coming from the Global fog and multiple ripple textures.  These add
the most "atmosphere" for my scenes, though, so I need them there.  I was
just wondering if anybody had any experience with Lightwave versus Imagine
for Trace renderings and if Lightwave were substantially faster or not?

Command:
Real-time 3D trace renderings?  Not in this  lifetime!!!
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5655 imagine on ftp
11/15/93 10:08 4/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 4 of 4 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
        Imagine2.0 is now available on ftp aminet. It can be found in
aminet/biz/demo. I didn't try it, but I think AmigaFormat's cover disk is
now on PD.
Stanis
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5656 Re: RAM-hogs
11/15/93 10:19 22/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> > Imagine is just a RAM-hog, IMHO.
>
> *Any* 3-D package hogs memory... just like any image processor...
> they're just memory-intensivce sorts of things.
> --
>      Gordon Schumacher
>

NOT TRUE.  I happen to know of one that can render Carmen Rizzolo's
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
NCC-1701D in less than 8 megs of RAM.  Stay tuned for further details.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5657 SUBSCRIBE [e-mail]
11/15/93 07:53 11/ "Desplat, Jean C" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 11 (90%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Hi !


I'd like how to subscribe to the imagine Mailing-List.



                     JC

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
 ([e-mail])
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5658 2.9 is _HERE_ !!!
11/15/93 13:46 17/ <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


        Yes!

        2.9 Amiga version just go here today.  Even though I have several
projects (homework ! ack!) to do I will try to post a comprehensive review
and answer all those questions soon....NOT!

        Seriously...I will try to get into tonight and will let everyone know
what it's like.  Just couldn't resist posting here.  Sorry!
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

        Render on!

        Mike C.
        [e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5659 Re: Trace time vs scanline
11/15/93 13:22 24/ Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>    I have been working on an animation with an undersea scenario.
> I couldn't get the desired water effects with Scanline mode, I went to
> Trace.  Now, it is taking over 9 HOURS per frame to render! I was
> just wondering if anybody had any experience with Lightwave versus Imagine
> for Trace renderings and if Lightwave were substantially faster or not?

LightWave has never had much effort put into its tracer and while its not
a complete pig, it is probably not as fast as Imagine when your entire
screen is filled with traced surfaces (as in your case). However, the big
difference is that LightWave's scanline renderer is powerful enough that it
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
can easily accomplish many tasks that Imagine must trace through. Your
senario, for example, can easily be accomplished within LW entirely in scanline
mode and look quite convincing. SeaQuest is a testament to that. Based upon
the level of detail, texturing, and water effects you describe, I would venture
to guess that you could achieve about a 10x speedup in LW over Imagine for
the scenes you are working on.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
Command:
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5660 Imagine3.0 Demo on Aminet
11/15/93 14:21 2/ "David A. Rollins" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 2 of 2 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

There is a demo of Imagine V3.0 on aminet in /pub/aminet/biz/demo
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5661 render times and backgrounds
11/15/93 03:35 6/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 6 of 6 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
     Is there a way to merge a single background frame with
     parts of multiple frames to produce an animation?  What I would
     like to do, to save render time, is render one frame as a
     background and then render only objects that move in all other
     frames, then merge pics.  Is there a way to merge only the part
     of a pic (the part that contains the object that moves) ?
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5662 RE: imagine on ftp
11/15/93 15:50 15/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

  So, Imagine 2.0 is now Public Domain!!?!  BTW, the Imagine on ftp aminet
has the title of Imagine 3.0!  Haven't checked it out but will do so
tonight.  Maybe whoever uploaded it got the version number wrong.  We shall
see ....
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: "[e-mail]"
Subject: imagine on ftp
Date: Monday, November 15, 1993 7:08PM
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

        Imagine2.0 is now available on ftp aminet. It can be found in
aminet/biz/demo. I didn't try it, but I think AmigaFormat's cover disk is
now on PD.
Stanis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5663 Re: Trace time vs scanline
11/15/93 16:45 14/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

One suggestion to try is to reduce the number of points(edges and faces too) in
your object.  There are some programs on the Amiga that will do this for you
and try to maintain the look of the object.

Pixel 3d and Interchange Plus, only on the Amiga AFAIK, will do this for you.
There may be others.


Tom Setzer
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5664 Happy, happy. Joy, joy.
11/15/93 17:48 78/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 78 (12%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

2.9 for the Amiga arrived today. Here's my list of first impressions.
bear in mind while reading this that I've only had the software a few hours.
This is not meant to start a flame fest. Instead I would like to here
what other 2.9 users think.

GOOD STUFF
----------
1. User interface cleaned up. no more shadowed menus. more logical
placement of stuff in requestors.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

2. Lots of included textures. haven't tried them out.

3. Detail editor deformations are real nice. interactive or numeric
modes. taper, bend,  pinch,shear, stretch aand twist. THese are
fun to play with and work well.

4. real time window in detail and stage. FINALLY. a pleasure to use.

5. Object fracture. in 2.0 you had to fracture segments or fa ces. now
Command:
entire objects can be fractured. simple and cool. kind of like the explode
f/x, but in the detail editor.

6. PARTICLE SYSTEM. There's been a lot of talk of particles in this list
recently. never having used a particle system, and only understanding the
basic concept behind them, I was unsure what all the fuss was about. Now
I see. This is the bifggest enhancement in 2.9. The particle f/x requestor
fills 2/3rds of the screen and will probably take me until 3.0 arrives
to master, but it seems like time well spent.

Command:
7. STATES. although the cycle editor is still in 2.9 (perhaps only
for compatability), I think it may be on it's way out. States let
you save many poses in one object (like a cycle) but all of the work is
done in the detail editor. The manual mentions that 3.0's bones will be
tightly tied to the states feature. States is also the heart of brush
and texture tacking.

8. LAYERS. as you load objects into the stagethey can be assigned to layers.
then individual layers can be turned on or off to reduce clutter in the
work area. THis is a great convenience.
Command:


BAD STUFF
---------
1. No support for 3.0's display database. This sucks. come on Impulse.
Please support the features that the worlds best OS gives us. A standard
file requestor is also needed. Yours still does not sort the list. This
is silly.

2. In the stage editor, when the Camera is tracked to an object, the
Command:
alignment (tracking) is not updated when you move the camera. you must
complete your move, hit the space bar and finally A-k to retrack. This
all but defeats the beauty of a real time window. This is at the top of
my wish list for 3.0

3. an 040 optimized version would be most welcome.

4. OPALVISION BUG. when Opalvision is selected in preferences, the machine will
lock up upon attempting to display to the card. This only applies to
the Amiga 4000 with Opal card. Most other software I've used with Opal
Command:
has had this bug, and is easily fixed.

5.I was hoping for sound support. I guess this will be in 3.0.

6. Essence is no longer compatable. Hey APEX- please upgrade to
3.0 compatability. Imagine without essence is like Bert without
Lonnie (or Ernie). WE WANT ESSENCE!! Need in fact. Yes, I'm begging.


As I learn more I'll post it here. BTW- They claim 3.0 should be out
Command:
with a manual by years end. Also, the mini manual that comes with 2.9 mentions
that for 100 dollars or so, 4 updates a year will be availible to those
who want them. THis is great, I only wish they had adopted this policy
sooner.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5665 Re: Trace time vs scanline
11/15/93 18:49 43/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 10 of 43 (23%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Stethem Ted writes:
>   I guess my question is, if this is a typical time for Trace rendering
> based on the number and size of the objects I am using and the amount of
> textures being applied?

Yes actually, 9 hours is not unheard of.  You didn't mention what
resolution you are rendering at, but I've gotten 10 hour times on my
A3000 when using Trace w/shadows and the whole screen almost filled with
a transparent & bump-mapped object.  (At 736x480 rez.)

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

> Other than that, is there anything obvious or simple I could be doing
> to reduce my rendering time?

You could try any of these things:

Reduce the Index of Refraction on your objects - the higher, the longer
trace times will be.

Reduce the "Resolve Depth" (the number of recursive reflections).  This
Command:
is in the Config editor.

Reduce the antialiasing level, also in the Config.  It defaults to 30,
but you might be able to get away with a smaller value, especially if
you are only rendering in 640x400 (736x480 etc) or so.

Alternately, or in addition, you could reduce the actual number of
reflective/refractive objects in your scene.  And you didn't mention
whether you're using shadowed lights, but you could reduce or eliminate
those if so.
Command:

Lastly (or maybe firstly...) as someone else mentioned - reduce the
polygon counts of your objects.

All of these things will affect the look of your images, but if the
render times are too large you will have to make decisions on where to
sacrifice.  The two things that might affect your images the least, or
not at all, depending, are Antialiasing and Resolve Depth.  I suggest
you start with those if you can't reduce the detail (polys) of your
objects.
Command:

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5666 Re: Imagine3.0 Demo on Aminet
11/15/93 18:59 15/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
David A. Rollins writes:
>
> There is a demo of Imagine V3.0 on aminet in /pub/aminet/biz/demo

I looked at disk 1 (Imagine3-A.lha), and did not find a demo of 3.0, but
instead what looks like the regular Imagine 2.0 INT version.  It didn't
work either - complained that I had the wrong "NTSC/PAL" version, and
promptly GURU'd my machine.  Thank gopod I wasn't rendering...

In other words - BEWARE.  I think, as someone on Usenet pointed out
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
already, that this is a hacked version of 2.0, possibly illegal, and
maybe virus-infected for all I know.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5667 Re: Imagine 2.9 - It's HERE!
11/15/93 19:24 104/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 104 (9%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----



        Well, here are some notes for people:

        0] There is a new opening screen with a new rendering etc...
        1] I do not think the 640x400 has been addressed....but I haven't
                totally looked into it.
        2] The new 3D perspective thing is WAY cool.  This alone makes the
          program a pleasure to use now....here are some more details on it:
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
            - The perspective window no longer has those 2 blocks/bars
            - You can use the mouse to interactively rotate, the view,
                zoom in/out of the view, and change the perspective
                distortion of the view (FOV) in real time with bounding
                box reps.
            - There is now a great "reset" feature so you can get the perp
                view back to default, (it is now very easy to get messed
                up as there is no way to tell what angle you are look at)
            - All of this works in wireframe, hidden, shaded and new mode.
            - There is a new "New mode" This in itslef is pretty slick:
Command:
                - New mode draws items in wireframe BUT...draws them
                in the purple of orange blue black etc...color based
                on the pick select stuff etc....
                - Allows you to move and edit things in the PERSPECTIVE
                view..  ie:  You can Click on an object in the
                perp view and move it around and see it as a bound-
                ing box etc.....very slick!
        3] Quick Edges: This is similar to marking edges for sharp/soft etc..
                Some of the problems with wireframe is: A] They show all
those           nasty triangles where all you need is certain edges, and B]
Command:
                They slow down the draw time.
                With this, you mark certain edges to be drawn in window,
                then when
                you do a "Quickdraw Pick/ALL" it will ask you bounding box
or              edges....if you choose the later, only the edges that are
                selected as Quick Edges are drawn.
        4] States:  Haven't gotten totally into this yet, but it is how
           they are going to implement bones, and also brushmap tacking and
            help to fix the cycle editor.
                -  I don't think this affects the cycle editor...you can still
Command:
                        use it if you want.
                - It saves all the poses in 1 file which you can
                        edit from the   lovely Detail editor.
                - It lets you do brush tacking and morphin by the 1 file/object
        5] Slick Stage/Animation stuff:
        There really is too much but I'll try:
                - Quick edges works in stage view as well
                - You can make a preview animation by:
                        - Full objects...ie: normal
                        - Quick edges:  ie: save time and look only at
Command:
                        whatever quick edges are defined for the object
                        - Bounding box:  Use bounding boxes for all objects
                                These 3 optional alone will save so much
                                TOOOOONS of time those old damn previews
                                where you had to insert
                                t emporary objects rep days are gone!
                - Camera/Light lines....
                        - You can now see dotted lines in
                        Quad view (once again
                        including perspective view if you
Command:
                        are in "new mode" where
                        the bounds for the light and camera
                        view are shown.
                        There is also a wireframe rep of a
                        camera in the "new mode"
                        perspecive view   (ala Toaster?!)
                - There is a new layers thing which i haven't gotten to yet but
                sounds very slick.
                - Here is a wierd one....what do you think moving the perp view
                as desribed now by the mouse stuff above
Command:
                does when you are in
                view camera mode in the Stage editor:
                Answer:  In normal perp view it works like normal, but
                        in Camera View mode, you can move
                        the camera and rotate the scene around the point of
                        view  using the mouse in real time in the perp
                        window.  Very nice
                - Also with the "new mode" perp view, when you
                position objects around each other for animations, the
                object is drawn in real time as a bounding box in 3D so you can
Command:
                tell how it will be placed relative to other objects in the
                perp view.
                 You can actually place objects and position the
                camera and angle without using track objects!
        6] I did not notice any changes in the forms or cycle editor,
        however, in the forms editor it seems you CANNOT use
        the "new mode" for editing.       :(
        7] The spline editor seems nice....if i could figure it out!

        Oh well...enough for now....suffice it to say there are MANY new
Command:
things and this is not even the full release with bones yet!

        I also messed with particles....made a particle sphere.  It looks
likeit figure out particle based on the number of faces or something.
Dunno,I haven't read all of the "pre-manual" yet so i'll probably get to it
sooner or later.

        Sorry for all thje tyopes and formatting erros but it's late!


Command:
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5668 Re: CD32 and Imagine
11/15/93 21:26 15/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>With a sparkle in his eyes, Jeff Wahaus writes...
>
>> Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
>get an A1200 [with some Xtra memory and an 030] and wait for the CD32 add-on
>module promised from Commodore.
>Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
>[e-mail]
>
WARNING... CBM has already stated that the CD32 option for the A1200
will occupy the "trap door" so kiss your 030 goodbye when you add
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
that CD32 add-on.  If you want a CD32 buy one, don't bother with the
A1200 add-on.

Don DeCosta
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5669 Re: Imagine 2.9 - It's HERE!
11/15/93 21:48 9/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
The most important question I have is: does it automatically smooth the
keyframes like LightWave???

And can you move between keyframes for an object easily?  Heck, can you
even move forward & back thru the frames without having to wait for it
to re-load the objects each time?

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5670 CD32...Enough!
11/15/93 23:26 14/ Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi All,

    Short and simple....Take the CD32 to C.S.A. hardware.....PLEASE.
I am getting tired of getting all these non-imagine related post's. Thanks :-)

                                                    Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at | Email (UNIX)[e-mail] |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                Memeber                 |
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
 | Bay w/105 & 450 Meg Hard Drives,  |   Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group     |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  | Imagine 2.0 rendering enthusiast and   |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  | graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5671 CD32....Enough
11/16/93 00:13 15/ Scott Lundholm <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi All,

    Short and simple....Take the CD32 to C.S.A. hardware.....PLEASE.
I am getting tired of getting all these non-imagine related post's. Thanks :-)

                                                    Scott Lundholm

 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
 | Amiga 500/030 at 38Mhz w/68882 at | Email (UNIX)[e-mail] |
 | 50Mhz, 8Meg of 32-bit RAM, Bodega |                Memeber                 |
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
 | Bay w/105 & 450 Meg Hard Drives,  |   Redwood Empire Amiga Users Group     |
 | HP PaintJet, 16" HP Programmable  | Imagine 2.0 rendering enthusiast and   |
 | Multisynch w/Flicker Free Video.  | graphics fanatic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   |
 *----------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5672 Re: New Speed
11/16/93 01:00 63/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 63 (15%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
This is something Rick Rodriguez and I have been talking about via E-mail
concerning the speed of Imagine & LW. (and the A4000/040)
He thought that it might be interesting for the rest of the IML.
So did I so here goes.


 On 15 Nov 1993, Rick Rodriguez wrote:

> 2.9 should be winging its way to you any moment.  Let me know what
> you think.  I hate to disappoint you on this, but I have empirical
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> data which supports my contentions regarding speed.
>
> Yesterday, after my post to you, I created a simple scene which could
> be duplicated on both Imagine and LW.  It consisted of one light, my
> nighttable object from the VRS Media Master Designers Objects Series
> Volume 1 Bed & Bath.  This object may also be found in Syndesis'
> 3D-ROM.
>
> The nighttable is mapped completely with an IFF wood brush and has
> a nice combination of flat surfaces and complex curves.
Command:
>
> I filled the frame with object against a black background.
>
> On a 4000, the image took 6 minutes in LW with rendering set to 752x480,
> antialiasing set to low, adaptive sampling, 16.  In Imagine, the image
> took just under 5 minutes with edge level set to 8.
> On a 2000, the Imagine image took 2:40.  I couldn't test LW on the
> 2000, but I assume the render would be around 3 minutes.
>
> I then traced the scene.  On the 4000, the Imagine image took 8:08.
Command:
> Lightwave took 13:03!  On the 2000 (which has a Progressive 040, 28 Mhz
> and 16 megs of RAM), the Imagine picture took 4:52!
>
> I shadow-mapped the Lightwave scene and re-rendered and the image took
> about 6-1/2 minutes.  Unfortunately, I couldn't get a usable shadow
> map.  I tried scaling the map all the way to 2048, but kept getting
> a serrated edge on the shadow.  Blurring it helped somewhat.
>
> For grins, I tested the scene in Imagine PC on a 486/66.  The raytrace
> took under 2 minutes!  The scanline was 1:01.
Command:
>
> It's my conclusion that folks who talk about increased speed are
> talking apples and oranges.  Since I've had the "luxury" of building
> duplicate scenes in Imagine, Lightwave and 3D Studio, I can speak very
> matter-of-factly about rendering speed.
>
> Clearly, a lot of the talk of LW's speed is based on folks doing low-res
> previews with zero antialiasing.  These do seem perky.  However, lowering
> the res and eliminating antialiasing gives Imagine a speed burst, too.
>
Command:
> As for professional applications, LW is an excellent package because
> Alan Hastings has been very responsive to the needs of producers and
> has implemented features as they have been requested.  Unfortunately,
> Impulse  has preferred to implement more esoteric features.
>
> Thank you for the opportunity to set the record straight.  Please do me
> a favor and repost this message  to the entire list.
>
> --Rick Rodriguez
>   VRS Media
Command:
>
>

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5673 Archive#43
11/16/93 01:33 15/ Nikola Vukovljak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
I'm sure that I already posted this but can't remember it appearing on
the list.

Anyway, Archive #43 of the IML has been uploaded onto Aminet since I
couldn't upload it to the usual spot on wuarchive. I'll upload it there
when waurchive lets me.

The archive is in gfx/3d directory of aminet. File arc-43.lha.

The archive covers messages from Oct 1 - 31.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Nik.
(Your friendly archivist)


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5674 So called Imagine 3.0 demo
11/16/93 01:33 14/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
The so called Imagine 3.0 demo is nothing more than a hacked/cracked
version of the Imagine 2.0 that appeared on the Amiga Format coverdisk.
If you've downloaded it please erase it and if you have uploaded to
any BBS or FTP site tell the sysadmin to erase it. Impulse gives away
Imagine 2.0 for $10 and the Euro Pirates still steal it and have the
gall to upload it to a FTP site. Impulse is crazy if they think the
Euro Pirates are going to pay $100 to upgrade to Imagine 3,0. All
they've done with this coverdisk giveaway is alienate people who
are likely to actually buy the upgrade in favor of people who wont
buy it at any cost. Smart move Impulse.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

                            Scott Corley

[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5675 Imagine 3.0 demo
11/16/93 05:17 16/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> The so called Imagine 3.0 demo is nothing more than a hacked/cracked
> version of the Imagine 2.0 that appeared on the Amiga Format coverdisk.

Why would anyone need to crack Imagine 2.0?  It was not copy protected in
any way.  In what way is the file hacked?

I got the "Imagine 3.0 demo" and could not de-arc it.  All of the files
in the archive seemed to not have a filename.  I guess I need a newer
version of LHA.  I think I'm using v1.16.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Has anyone checked this file for viruses?

-Jeff Wahaus-
[e-mail]

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5676 Re: Imagine 3.0 demo
11/16/93 08:17 8/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 8 of 8 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Has anyone checked this file for viruses?

Well, I erased it, so I can't tell you if there's any virii in it.  But
I checked my system afterwards with Virus Checker 6.32, and it didn't
find anything.

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5677 Re: Imagine 2.9 - It's HERE!
11/16/93 09:05 23/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 23 (43%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>
>You mention editing in Detail editor in perspective. Can you actually
>move points and faces or not ? This would be way cool if possible.
>
>Nik.
>
>
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>

        Yes,  it draws the points faces etc in perspective, and you can
select and move them in the perspective window with clicking, bounding box
and lasso etc...

        Pretty neat.


--
Command:
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5678 More on 2.9
11/16/93 09:21 62/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 62 (16%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----




        I had more time to play around with 2.9 here are some more goodies:

        - States:  Basically this makes the cycle editor obsolete, though
                they said they will keep it in the program since some
                people have things like cycle man etc...

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
        - All you do is make an object or group of objects in a heirarchy
                and in any configuration settings etc  you want.
          Then you create a state.  Now you can manipulate, mash and
                mutilate your object and also move the groups arounds etcc.
                then you make another state.
          Finally you just morph the object by state names.  Thus, one
                object can hold all the morph positions etc...1 file.
          Better yet, the texture and brush map requestors have a slot
                where you enter the "lock state".  This is the state where
                it figures how to tack the brushmap and texture to the
Command:
                object.
        - so, to tack a brushmap, you just apply it, make a state, and tell
                it to lock to that state, then you can make other states
                etc....and morph them and the brushmap/texture will follow.

        - Also, there is no longer any problems with having to worry about
                axis size and placement (ie: cycle setup) etc...if you use
                states.


Command:
        Particles:  Here is what I think i have figured out about it.  I
may be wrong of course:

        - There are 2 particle "Things" in imagine.  1 are particle objects
                where when you render your object each face is rendered as
                a small block, pyramid, dodecohedran etc.....  and the
                other is particle motion FX.

        - The object part basically renders an object so that where each
                face would be there is now one of these nifty objects that
Command:
                you specify.  Then can tell it how to align etc..etc...

        - The motion will work on any object...is breaks up each face and
                manipulates it etc...thus you can render particle motion
                for particle objects, or normal objects whose faces just
                fly all over the place.

        - I managed to make a particle anim where this sphere explodes and
                graviates to the ground plus bounces off the ground until
                everything comes to rest.
Command:

        - There is also a wind thing which blows particles etc..etc...

                TONS of options etc...

        Gotta go!


--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5679 Re: Imagine3.0 Demo on Aminet
11/16/93 10:29 26/ Trin Yuthasastrackosol <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
On Mon, 15 Nov 1993, Jeff Walkup wrote:

> David A. Rollins writes:
> >
> > There is a demo of Imagine V3.0 on aminet in /pub/aminet/biz/demo
>
> I looked at disk 1 (Imagine3-A.lha), and did not find a demo of 3.0, but
> instead what looks like the regular Imagine 2.0 INT version.  It didn't
> work either - complained that I had the wrong "NTSC/PAL" version, and
> promptly GURU'd my machine.  Thank gopod I wasn't rendering...
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Yah..I get that problem until I switch to PAL mode, then it runs fine, except
that about 20% of the screen is missing at the bottom. Easy to fix tho',
just change the bytes in the program which specify the vertical
resolution from 256 to 200 and it will open with the whole screen.
Stil have to run it in PAL unfortunately.
        Anyways, I don't think Imagine2.0 should have been uploaded to aminet
. Has anyone asked Impulse about this?
Expecting 2.9 anyday now :-).
___
Command:
Trin Dominic Yuthasastrakosol           | Definition: Bigot (noun). Someone
Dept. Pharmacology and Therapeutics     | who zealously holds a set of ideas,
University of Manitoba                  | beliefs or opinions which are
A5002MbChip1MbFastSupraturbo28GVPII354Mb| different from yours.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5680 morphing
11/16/93 10:14 14/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hello all;
        It seems I have failed to grasp the morphing everyone is
talking about. I have a logo I am trying to morph into a drill bit,
I created the bit in vertex and made sure aces etc. were all the same count
as the logo. In the cycle editor the logo change postion but not shape.
So I tried a box in the detail editor saved it, then distorted the box by
moving points here and there stretching it out of shape then saving that.
now in cycle editor I loaded the box then went to frame 15 then loaded
(I think it was position or picture?) but again the box moved its location
on the screen but no distortion of the box itself. Is there an actual
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
morph menu or selector I am missing somewhere?

                                                Thanks All
                                                  Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5681 RE: render times and backgrounds
11/16/93 10:58 20/ 16-Nov-1993 0514 <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>     Is there a way to merge a single background frame with
>    parts of multiple frames to produce an animation?  What I would
>    like to do, to save render time, is render one frame as a
>    background and then render only objects that move in all other
>    frames, then merge pics.  Is there a way to merge only the part
>     of a pic (the part that contains the object that moves) ?

  I did this once. I had rendered Steve Worleys fire tutorial and wanted
  to use it as a background, So what I did was I made a cycleman anim,
  and I set the reflective map to a frame of the fire anim, and also
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
  the background. Then I went into the action editor, and incremented
  the fire pic frames in the globels. I ended up with a chrome cycle
  man that when he moved had all the right reflections. I did it manually,
  but ISL or such should allow you to do it with less manual overhead.
  The completed anim was quite nice. This has it's limits because you
  are using both the reflected, and background in the action editor, so
  their not available for oher effects. However it served me well for
  this anim. Pretty crude but then it was just an experiment.

                                                        bill
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5682 RE: render times and backgrounds
11/16/93 10:58 20/ 16-Nov-1993 0514 <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>     Is there a way to merge a single background frame with
>    parts of multiple frames to produce an animation?  What I would
>    like to do, to save render time, is render one frame as a
>    background and then render only objects that move in all other
>    frames, then merge pics.  Is there a way to merge only the part
>     of a pic (the part that contains the object that moves) ?

  I did this once. I had rendered Steve Worleys fire tutorial and wanted
  to use it as a background, So what I did was I made a cycleman anim,
  and I set the reflective map to a frame of the fire anim, and also
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
  the background. Then I went into the action editor, and incremented
  the fire pic frames in the globels. I ended up with a chrome cycle
  man that when he moved had all the right reflections. I did it manually,
  but ISL or such should allow you to do it with less manual overhead.
  The completed anim was quite nice. This has it's limits because you
  are using both the reflected, and background in the action editor, so
  their not available for oher effects. However it served me well for
  this anim. Pretty crude but then it was just an experiment.

                                                        bill
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5683 Could you upload 2.9 particle animations?
11/16/93 11:45 19/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Michael Comet said:

>        - The motion will work on any object...is breaks up each face and
>                manipulates it etc...thus you can render particle motion
>                for particle objects, or normal objects whose faces just
>                fly all over the place.
>
>        - I managed to make a particle anim where this sphere explodes and
>                graviates to the ground plus bounces off the ground until
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>                everything comes to rest.
>
>        - There is also a wind thing which blows particles etc..etc...


Could you post some of these animations for us who don't have 2.9 yet?
I would really like to see some of what 2.9 can do before I upgrade.

Thanks
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5684 Re: morphing
11/16/93 13:18 30/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 30 (33%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
You don't morph in the Cycle editor, you do it in the Action editor.  The
first tutorial in the 1.1 manual (if you have it) is a nice morph of a
sphere into a cube.

Basically, add your first actor in the first frame.  Then add the second
actor ON THE SAME ACTOR LINE, and specify how many transition frames you
want the morph to take.  Save your work. Go into Stage, and look at one of
the transition frames.  Should be what you're looking for.

BTW, point count ain't all you have to match.  All the points, edges and
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
faces also have to be drawn in the same ORDER, or no go.  That's why it's
usually best to start with your most complex object, mash it into a
plane/sphere/whatever primitive, and morph from that.  If you have to
morph a complex shape from a complex shape, try using a sphere as an
intermediate object, and just swapping spheres in a single frame, e.g.:

Object1------->sphere1
               sphere2--------Object2

Where each sphere has the same color/brushmap/texture, but point count
Command:
matching the respective Object.  Other primitives work well, too.  A plane
magnetically drawn up into an amorphous blob is good for T2 effects.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5685 Enough Already II, The Final Chapter
11/3/93 23:12 10/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 10 of 10 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

People please!  I've read quite enough b*tching about the free-giveaway
already.  Please go start a thread in Usenet if you want to talk about
this further.  Please!  Certainly everyone has the right to discuss this
issue, but please take it somewhere else than the IML.  I would consider
it a personal favor - I speak for myself but surely there are others
who feel as I do.  Thank you OH so much!

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5686 Re: IMAGINE PC
10/16/93 19:52 17/ [e-mail] (Greg Pringle)
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

   Thanks for all the great info re: imagine PC, everyone! I
really appreciate everyone resisting the urge to launch into
IBM vs. Amiga bashing. I've been tracking down the utility programs
mentioned, and after I get a chance to test them out, I'll try
and post a summary of what is available where.

   Greg

--
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| Greg Pringle                 | Amiga VBBS - Multitasking, Windowed   |
| [e-mail]     |                BBS'ing!               |
| [e-mail]  | VBBS 14.4K: [phone] & 284-5625 |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------+


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5687 Imagine Screen Sizes
10/23/93 05:44 17/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> True, the rendered sizes can be set from the Imagine.config file, but I'd
> be happy for you to show me which numbers to change to swap the interfaces
> between PAL/NTSC screen sizes. I'm pretty sure it can't be done so easily.
>
> AFAIR, the NTSC version will use screen sizes in the region of 640 x 480
> for the interfaces, whilst PAL screens are 640 x 512 (at least the ones I
> grabbed with GrabIFF are...).
>
> Gary
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

  Actually the screen size for Imagine can be easily changed.  All you
have to do is find a good HEX editor and patch the executable.  The
bytes to change were posted here not long ago.

-Jeff Wahaus-

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5688
11/16/93 20:27 29/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
Lines 1 to 10 of 29 (34%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> Hello all;
>       It seems I have failed to grasp the morphing everyone is
> talking about. I have a logo I am trying to morph into a drill bit,
> I created the bit in vertex and made sure aces etc. were all the same count
> as the logo. In the cycle editor the logo change postion but not shape.
> So I tried a box in the detail editor saved it, then distorted the box by
> moving points here and there stretching it out of shape then saving that.
> now in cycle editor I loaded the box then went to frame 15 then loaded
> (I think it was position or picture?) but again the box moved its location
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> on the screen but no distortion of the box itself. Is there an actual
> morph menu or selector I am missing somewhere?
>
>                                               Thanks All
>                                                 Lesk

        Morphing is done in the Stage and Action editors, NOT the cycle editor,
though you can morph Cycle objects.

        I am pretty sure there is a morph tutorial in the manuals.
Command:

        All you have to do is to add an object, and then add to its actor timeline
in the Action editor to tell it the morph target, and then set the transition
frame count in the same requestor.

Mike C.
[e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5689 CD32 as a Slave continued...
11/12/93 07:00 83/ "Jeff Wahaus, CAPS, ATL, 404-640-3529" <[e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 83 (12%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> With a sparkle in his eyes, Jeff Wahaus writes...

>> Wouldn't it be neat if you could hook up a CD32 to your amiga and
>> use it as some additional horsepower during rendering.  I really
>> hope someone comes out with some kind of SCSI interface for the
>> CD32 and writes the software to network it to any Amiga.  Not
>> only would you have a CD-ROM drive, but also a display buffer,
>> an additional CPU, and optional hardware MPEG support.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Carmen Rizzolo recently interjected...
> Jeff...
>
>    This is POSSIBLE, but it's not probable.  First of all, CD32 does
> not have SCSI.  Second of all, CD32 is powered by a low-end 60EC020,
> without a math co-processor.  You're not gonna get a signifigant boost
> of rendering speed from CD32 unless you're maybe used to a 68000 for
> rendering.

  Well I don't know why you think it's not probable.  A product like
Command:
I suggested would take off like sliced bread.  The CD32 does not have SCSI
but it does have an expansion bus (you know where the MPEG add on goes).
So all you need is 1 expansion card which has on it MPEG and SCSI.  Ideally
you would have MPEG, SCSI, and RAM and maybe even a math coprocessor
socket.

  As far as rendering goes, no it wouldn't be practical to use a CD32 for
rendering although it would be possible.  What you could use the CD32 for
is 24-bit to HAM6 or HAM8 conversion.  And then even HAM to ANIM
conversion.  If your rendering animation is taking 1 hour per frame then
Command:
the 14 MHz 68020 in the CD32 could easily do the above conversions in that
time.  The CD32 could even preview the completed part of the animation
while the rest is still rendering.  A program like HamLab (around 150K)
which supports using disk space as memory could be run on the CD32 without
modification.  You could control it using ARexx.  That's assuming you can
pass ARexx messages to the CD32 which would be quite possible with the
right software.

>  The MPEG would be a plus tho, as would it's display abilities as a
> near- 24-bit frame buffer.  But I think the closest you'll get to
Command:
> this idea is to get an A1200 [with some Xtra memory and an 030] and
> wait for the CD32 add-on module promised from Commodore.

  Um, well I don't want a A1200 or even an A4000.  I quite satisfied with
my Amiga 2000.  It's 5 years old now.  It has got 5 video output ports:
Monochrome Composite, Standard ECS RGB, 31KHz ECS RGB (via an A2320),
GVP's Spectrum RGB, and SVGA.  It runs at 25MHz with its 68030/68882.  Has
a bridge board with a Quantum HardCard+, dual serial ports, SVGA graphics.
It has 10MB of RAM (9MB 32-bit), fast SCSI, Quantum 120MB SCSI, Commodore
SCSI tape drive, 3 1/2" high density floppy, 5 1/4" high density floppy.
Command:
Oh yea did I mention 68000 fall back mode for old games.  And all of this
is inside the case (except the tape drive).  And there is even room for
more expansion cards and maybe even another SCSI hard disk.

  The point here is that there is no way I'm going to dump this for an
Amiga 1200.  An Amiga 4000 wouldn't come close to holding all of my
expansion cards.  A CD32 daisy chained externally to my SCSI bus would be
the perfect way to add AGA compatibility, a CD-ROM drive, and a CD32! :)

>  Myself, I've got a similar setup, but with all different equipment
Command:
> than you mentioned..  Personal Animation Recorder to play anims instead
> of MPEG and OpalVision [with OpalPaint] as a true 24-bit display device.
> It may be more expensive than the setup you suggested, but it's a
> cleaner display, broadcast quality and it's possible. :)

  The PAR will cost you about $2300 when you include the price of the
required IDE (yuk!) hard disk.  The CD32 will cost you about $300 plus
another $200 if you want MPEG.  Of course for the CD32 setup to be of any
use someone will have to write the networking software and design the CD32
to Amiga SCSI interface card for the CD32.
Command:

  The CD32 can display AGA graphics over the top of high quality MPEG video
which is something that I don't think the PAR can do.

>  Sorry to shoot your idea full of holes like that..
> Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist

Well don't be sorry, I think you just missed the target.  Aim again. :)

-Jeff Wahaus-
Command:
[e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5690
11/16/93 20:47 27/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> From: Rick Rodriguez
>To: TedS
>Subject: Re: Trace time vs scanline
>Date: Monday, November 15, 1993 10:20PM
>
>Nine hours seems like a long time.  Maybe you can reduce index of
>refraction.  That lengthens rendering considerably.  Also play with
>your edge level in the Preferences editor.  Make sure it's no lower
>than 8.  You might also lower the number of iterations if you don't
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>have a lot of reflectivity.  I've gotten away comfortably with 3
>recursions.
>
>Of course, the best bet is an '040 with lots of 32-bit RAM!  Or better
>still, a 486/66 or Pentium (mine arrives tomorrow).
>--Rick Rodriguez
__________________________________________________________

  Yes, I have received several suggestions to do these things.  So far, no
decrease  in rendering time.  I haven't tried less anti-aliasing yet or
Command:
investigated change in size in Stage Editor and resulting differences in
rendering time.
   I do have an '040 with 32-bit RAM but maybe not enough.  Of course, based
on a past speed comparison between '040/33MHz and 486/66MHz, the rendering
time could be half what it is with a 486/66 MHz!  And then there is those
privileged few that will be getting a Pentium system!  I am glad to hear
that you will be leaving me behind in the dust  |:^(
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5691
11/16/93 21:08 26/ [e-mail]@unix.portal.com
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hello Trin Yuthasastrackosol,
>
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1993, Jeff Walkup wrote:
>
> > David A. Rollins writes:
> > >
> > > There is a demo of Imagine V3.0 on aminet in /pub/aminet/biz/demo
> >
> > I looked at disk 1 (Imagine3-A.lha), and did not find a demo of 3.0, but
> > instead what looks like the regular Imagine 2.0 INT version.  It didn't
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> > work either - complained that I had the wrong "NTSC/PAL" version, and
> > promptly GURU'd my machine.  Thank gopod I wasn't rendering...
>
> Yah..I get that problem until I switch to PAL mode, then it runs fine, except
> that about 20% of the screen is missing at the bottom. Easy to fix tho',
> just change the bytes in the program which specify the vertical
> resolution from 256 to 200 and it will open with the whole screen.
> Stil have to run it in PAL unfortunately.
>       Anyways, I don't think Imagine2.0 should have been uploaded to aminet
> . Has anyone asked Impulse about this?
Command:

I was psyched out. Apparently, somebody uploaded the "free" Imagine2.0
disk to Aminet and called it Imagine3.0 Demo.

I am sorry for the false alarm.

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5692 trace rendering
11/16/93 16:38 11/ [e-mail] (Gigi Alandt)
Lines 1 to 10 of 11 (90%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
I'm having a problem rendering a project.  Actually, I can get the system
to render I just can't get any of my objects to show up.  I've got
reflective glass surfaces so I definately want to use trace (I can get the
images to show up if I'm in scanline)  I set my global size at 0 and I
scaled down all my elements to as small as I thought was necessary, and I'm
talking pretty darn small!! still no luck....
  My presets are hires, ILBM 12bit.  For some odd reason stereo 3D wont
turn off.  I don't know if this has anything to do with why I can't get my
images to render.
Does anybody have any advice??
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
I'd appreciate your help thanks.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5693 Re: DPS PAR
11/16/93 18:13 4/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
Lines 1 to 4 of 4 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
For people using a PC, DPS says that a version of PAR will be available in
Q1/94. Still working on the software interface.

Andrew.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5694 2.9 particle question
11/16/93 15:30 31/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Someone here (perhaps Jeff) mentioned they made a rain particle animation. I
am trying the same thing but have a problem setting the particles in motion.
here's what I did:

1. made a 4X4 plane in detail editor. in particle requester I went for small
inscribed spheres. saved it.

2. in stage placed the plane 300 units above z.

3. in action added the particle effect from 1 to 20 frames. checked the
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
rain box. set ttravel distance to 300. set ground Z coordinate to 0 (the
ground)

Now the wierd part. if I return to the stage at frame 1 the particles are
already scattered from the origin point to the ground. well, ok maybe
that''s normal and in the next 19 frames the rest will follow. However
there is no movement on the next 19 frames. all particles remain
in place. I've tried adding bounce and even altering some of the
parameters that don't seem to apply to what I was doing. No difference.
What am I missing here?? anyone?
Command:

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
                    |





Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5695 re: 2.9 pro/con
11/16/93 18:03 44/ [e-mail] (Andrew McDonald)
Lines 1 to 10 of 44 (22%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> 2.9 for the Amiga arrived today. Here's my list of first impressions.
>
> 2. In the stage editor, when the Camera is tracked to an object, the
> alignment (tracking) is not updated when you move the camera. you must
> complete your move, hit the space bar and finally A-k to retrack. This
> all but defeats the beauty of a real time window. This is at the top of
> my wish list for 3.0
>

I have been using 2.9 furiously since last Tuesday night, (ack! get a
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
life), depending on the animation, a camera track object may not be
necessary. The real-time window in the stage editor allows you to track
the camera right there, just use the "A"ngle and "Z"oom buttons to move
the camera in and out of the scene and rotate.

The real-time window will also handle camera rotations performed in other
windows using the usual x,y,z axis' stuff, and camera lines combined with
the real time preview allow much more precision of camera field of view
(scale on x and y).

Command:
RE: Essence Textures

Seems Impulse took a good look at the Essence textures and incorporated
most of the ideas into the new texture set included with v2.9. While some
of the Apex implementations of fractal noise are better, the new Impulse
textures go far beyond the old collection. I can get a pretty good grass
out of one of the bump textures, and coolfir is way cool. Also, crumpled,
if done right, will give that "underwater in a swimming pool" look.

I'm a little disappointed with the limitations of particles, but for the
Command:
money Imagine 2.9 gives me a good start. Not too many desktop 3D programs
have done much in this area besides the IPAS routines for 3D Studio. I
really haven't used the 3DS particles, so can't make any useful
comparisons. Note, I'm not sure if my disappointment with particles is
with Imagine, or the particle concept. As it stands, the particle f/x is
just another exploding triangle effect, while the detail editor particle
objects can be very cool. Unfortuneately, there is no way to easily morph
an object exploding into nice cubed particles since I don't have the math
background to compute the increase in points/edges/faces when an object is
made particle.
Command:

Whew. Sorry to use up so much bandwidth.

Andrew.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5696 No Demo From Impulse
11/16/93 19:29 19/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Greetings All  :)

I spoke with Arv at Impulse this morning to check if the "demo" was in any way
sponsored or endorsed by Impulse.  Surprise, surprise, they don't.  I
downloaded it the night it came out, and checked the files for viruii.  The
files are clean, but they aren't the real thing either.  Impulse says that the
only quasi-PD release they have made is the Amiga Format cover disk.

I also would LOVE to see the particle animation(s) uploaded for FTP.  I don't
have 2.9 (yet), and am curious to see what the new version is capable of.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

-Bob

Robert J. O'Connell  Producer/Videographer/Amigan/Imagineer
The Massachusetts College of Art / Studio for Interrelated Media




Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5697 Re: Could you upload 2.9 particle animations?
11/16/93 19:19 14/ <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

>
> Could you post some of these animations for us who don't have 2.9 yet?
> I would really like to see some of what 2.9 can do before I upgrade.
>

        Sure....if anyone can point to me to a site where I can upload some
JPEG stills and anims, i will do so.  I wonder if wuarchive is still down.
Anyone know of ANOTHER site?

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
        Mike C.
        [e-mail]


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5698 Imagine 3.0, uhhh...
11/16/93 19:47 121/ [e-mail] (Charles Blaquiere)
Lines 1 to 10 of 121 (8%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
...well, not quite. (WARNING: this message is one big spoiler! If you don't want
to spoil the surprise when you receive Imagine, don't read this!)

What I got was Imagine 2.9. Yep, Impulse has yet some more delivery problems. Not
all bugs have been squashed, so they have released an interim version whimsically
called "2.9 -- in construction". There's no manual (that'll be included in the
no-charge "real" 3.0 upgrade), but Mike Halvorson did include a 25-page
description of the new features, written in Mike's inimitable style.

Here's what DIDN'T make it:
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

BONES
KINEMATICS
IMPROVED ANTI-ALIASING
NEW LIGHT SOURCES WITH IMPROVED SHADOWS
SHADOW MAPPING
NEW STAGE & ANIMATION TOOLS

And here's what DID make it:

Command:
DETAIL
------

-QUICK EDGES: Instead of a bounding box in Quickdraw, you pick some
representative edges of your object.
-MOUSE PERSPECTIVE VIEW CONTROL: Change alignment, zoom level and perspective
level by moving the mouse.
-ACTIVE PERSPECTIVE VIEW: Pick and edit anything by clicking on it in the
Perspective view, just like the other 3 views.
-LOAD/SAVE DXF: exchange AutoCAD objects with your friends.
Command:
-OBJECT DEFORMATION TOOLS: Twist, shear, taper, pinch, bend, stretch. Numerical
or mouse-interactive with live redraw.
-LATTICIZE: Your object is turned into a latticework where only its edges will
show; adjustable edge width.
-APPLIQUE: You select an IFF map which will be wrapped around your object, and
move its points in and out like an altitude map -- except the points are _really_
displaced. Different from Lightwave since the displacement map is not separate
from the object, i.e. you can't make the map travel across the length of your
swimming shark. Imagine's implementation results in a single deformed object.
-WAVE: Like the Ripple F/X, only in Detail.
Command:
-CHECK OBJ: When importing an "Imagine format" object from a 3rd-party program,
you can check its validity to make sure it's fully Imagine-legal.
-STATES: A morphing tool, a superset of the Cycle editor. You create an object
(your "base object"). You then de
form it, change its attributes and/or move its
elements if it's a hierarchy. The new object is called a "state"; for example,
"sitting man", "standing man" and "man with raised hand and big nose" are states;
the third state also incorporated some point deformations. All those states are
saved in the same object file. You can then morph, in the Action editor, from one
state to any other, in any order, revisiting some previous states if you wish. It
Command:
blends object morphing and cycle objects in an elegant manner.
-RENDER PALETTE: You can force Imagine to use a locked palette, or that from an
image on disk. Great for PC users who wait forever for Imagine to "cleanup" a
quickrender -- i.e. bring it down from 24-bit to 256 colors for viewing.
-PARTICLE: Will associate a particle object (e.g. a small pyramid -- can be any
Imagine object) with each triangular face of an object. The faces will not
render, just the particles. Particles are animated by applying a "particle" F/X
to the object in the Action editor. The F/X affects the invisible faces (like
"explode", but infinitely more complex), which in turn affects the particles.
More in "Action editor", below.
Command:

SPLINE
------

A brand new editor! Select any Postscript font, enter some text and your words
appear in 2-D. You can then extrude and bevel, with a choice of bevel styles, and
save as an Imagine object. Face subgroups will automatically be created, with
names such as "BACK FACE" or "FRONT BEVEL". Heaven. Sheer heaven. With user-
defined detail level, too, for those times when a 10,000-face logo is just too
much. Apart from importing Postscript fonts, you can draw your own (closed)
Command:
spline curves, with full spline control, not just the old Imagine "path" control
point rotation. For example, you can drag a control point's handles independently
to make a sharp corner. Again, this is a 2-D editor; its only 3-D capabilities
are straight extruding and bevelling.

ACTION
------

-ASSOCIATE: Forces a "slave" object (e.g. the camera) into a fixed distance and
angle from a "d
Command:
river" object (e.g. a rollercoaster car). Much easier than
creating separate motion paths or fiddling around with track objects.
-LAYERS: Each actor lives in a layer (0-99); many actors usually share the same
layer. This lets you turn whole groups on or off in the Stage editor, to speed up
scene adjustment.
-PARTICLE F/X: As described in "Detail editor", a particle object has one small
object assigned to each (invisible) of the object's triangular faces. This F/X
controls face movement, which in turn controls the visible particles.
        -REVERSE, GO BACK: Like "explode".
        -DELAY motion start depending on particle distance from object axis.
Command:
         To make your particles start moving, wave-like, at different times.
        -RAIN: vertical movement control. Gravity, bounce plane Z position,
         elasticity (how strongly particles bounce back)
        -WIND: horizontal movement control. Direction, speed, start/end frames.
        -PARTICLE SCALING & DELAY: Like "explode".
        -MIN/MAX ROTATION, ANGLE FROM X, FROM Z: Random individual variation.
        -ACCELERATION FRAMES
        -EMISSION AMOUNT: How many particles/frame are ejected from the object,
         a la "Deep space 9" meteor intro.

Command:
STAGE
-----

-LAYERS: Make any layer(s) invisible to reduce redraw times. As a safeguard, all
layers will automatically be used when _rendering_ the project.
-CAMERA & LIGHT LINES: shows lines beaming out of the camera and spotlight-type
lights, to visualize where their field of vision/influence ends.
-CAMERA VIEW: Adjusting the Perspective view will change the corresponding camera
position and angle. An alternative to adjusting the camera.
-CLONE: Once you've put in all the work needed to define an actor's fancy
Command:
timelines, you can create another actor with the same data, then make only those
adjustments needed to differentiate the second actor from the first.



As expected, Imagine feels a whole lot more like Lightwave now. Even if such
niceties as Bones and Kinematics aren't available yet, what _is_ there is more
than enough to play with for many, many moons. I'm sure you have m
any questions,
but for now, it's time I went to sleep.
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5699 trace rendering
11/17/93 00:01 12/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

I can think of two reasons why you might be having this problem.  The first
        one that comes to mind is RAM, or lack thereof.  The second, is that
        if all your objects are glass, and reflect stuff, well it could just be
        that it's reflecting so much, that it's invisible.  Turn down your
        reflection values and transparancy values a bit and see if that helps.
Any other suggestions out there?
steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
                        -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5700 Upload site
11/16/93 23:13 19/ [e-mail] (Phil Martin u)
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> >
> > Could you post some of these animations for us who don't have 2.9 yet?
> > I would really like to see some of what 2.9 can do before I upgrade.
> >
>
>       Sure....if anyone can point to me to a site where I can upload some
> JPEG stills and anims, i will do so.  I wonder if wuarchive is still down.
> Anyone know of ANOTHER site?

I like wcarchive.cdrom.com (I think it's the newest member of aminet).
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
They usually have all of the aminet files, and I almost always get on
first try.

>
>       Mike C.
>       [e-mail]
>
>
Phil Martin.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5701 Could someone post me...
11/17/93 03:13 5/ [e-mail] (Oren Ben)
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Sorry but could someone post me the info ..that was apparently up a
short while ago on the hack needed to change the defined screen sizes in
Imagine 2.0 please...
Thanks
Oren Ben
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5702 ...
11/17/93 05:07 1/ [e-mail] (Joergen Ekstroem)
Lines 1 to 1 of 1 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Please remove me from the IML! Thanks!
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5703 re: 2.9 pro/con
11/17/93 06:18 39/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 39 (25%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> RE: Essence Textures

> Seems Impulse took a good look at the Essence textures and incorporated
> most of the ideas into the new texture set included with v2.9. While some
> of the Apex implementations of fractal noise are better, the new Impulse
> textures go far beyond the old collection. I can get a pretty good grass

I'm sure the new Impulse textures are a lot better than the old ones
(which were extremely primitive, IMHO).  However, I think it still won't
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
be nearly up to what Essence can do for you.  There are a couple of
problems:

  * I have a lot of old projects that I'd like to be able to render
    under 3.0, and in order to do this, I need Essence to work since
    the objects use a lot of Essence textures.

  * Impulse has added, what, 30 new textures?  Essence has something
    like 140, as I recall.  Many of them are specialized to certain
    applications yet are invaluable if you need them.  Obviously most
Command:
    won't be available in the Impulse list.

  * The Essence textures are extremely well designed (getting the most
    from the limited parameters available, working cooperatively with
    other textures or not as you see fit, etc), and judging from what
    I've seen from Impulse before, I really doubt theirs will be as
    good or as powerful.

I still think I'm going to wait for Essence on 3.0 before I upgrade.  It
sounds like even 2.9 has some nice features (I really would like the
Command:
"layers" feature), but loosing the equivalent of maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of my
currently available textures is too steep a price to pay.  If it comes
to that, I'll just buy Real-3D and ditch Imagine entirely.  Real-3D has
a lot of other features that we Imagine types can only drool over
anyway.  Those Aladdin gas objects are pretty tempting too - I really
want true volumetric gasses, and it sounds like 3.0 won't give them to
me.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5704 trace rendering
11/17/93 06:28 24/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> images to show up if I'm in scanline)  I set my global size at 0 and I
> scaled down all my elements to as small as I thought was necessary, and I'm

In *theory* setting the global size to 0 makes the world "just big
enough" to cover all of your objects.  In *practice* I haven't found
that to be true at all.  I have 2 or 3 projects in which, if i leave the
global size set to 0, some objects don't get rendered, but if I manually
set the global size, they do.  I don't know if this is your trouble, but
its something to check at least.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Also, check your attributes.  If your glass is *too* transparent, it
might not be showing up.  Make sure you have some specular highlights
set, and turn hardness way up.

BTW, the unfortunate problem with global size is that, due to the way
octrees work, the larger you make the size compared to the objects in
your world, the slower your scene renders.  This can be a huge
difference.  I have seen 5 or 10X differences by adjusting the world
size.  It usually isn't a problem, but sometimes if I want a single
Command:
small object to be far from my "main" scene, it forces my world size to
grow, and thus slows down the rendering considerably.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5705 Imagine on Aminet
11/16/93 16:42 27/ [e-mail]@email.sp.paramax.com
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


        Talked to Impulse about Imagine 2.0 on Aminet.


        They were aware.


        They were NOT pleased.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

        They arranged to have the file taken off-line.  I successfully
ftp-ed it from wuarchive, including the readme file which went like this:



Short: Imagine 3.0 demo, disk 1 Uploaded by
xterm/[e-mail]


Command:
        Impulse said that they want to find the individual(s) responsible
and have a little wall-to-wall counseling session with same (paraphrased,
what the guy I talked to said would be unrepeatable in a family mailing list).

        Hope this clears things up.


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5706 Thanks all
11/17/93 07:03 12/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Thank you for your input everyone;
        It seems I really blundered in the cycle editor, all the morphing
takes place in the action editor. It is very important though that not
only the same quantity of points, faces, edges be the same but that they
have to be drawn in the same order. It sounds like I cannot make two
distinct objects and then morph them I actually have to modify my most
complex of the two into the second form. I am afraid to get the great
beveled edge along the blade etc. is going to be beyond my time frame
for this project. It was a good idea though.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
        Thanks to all of you who responded it was a great help.
                                        Lesk
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5707 constant backgrounds
11/17/93 08:08 25/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 25 (40%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> >     Is there a way to merge a single background frame with
> >    parts of multiple frames to produce an animation?  What I would
> >    like to do, to save render time, is render one frame as a
> >    background and then render only objects that move in all other
> >    frames, then merge pics.  Is there a way to merge only the part
> >     of a pic (the part that contains the object that moves) ?

Yep, it can be done, but with certain limitations.  Actually there are a
couple of ways to do it.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Given certain conditions (such as, all the moving objects are in *front*
of the static objects, and cast no shadows on the rest of the scene,
etc), you can do the following.  Render the first frame with all the
objects *except* the moving ones.  Save this picture.  Use it as a
backdrop image for the other frames, in which you render only the
*moving* objects.  As long as you don't move the camera, and don't have
your moving objects interact in any way with the still ones, it will be
indistinguishable from rendering everything for every frame.

Command:
One other alternative is to get clever with some image processing
program such as ImageFX or ADPro and merge your rendered foreground onto
the right place in the background.

   - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5708 Re: Wine glass from balls
11/17/93 08:37 21/ [e-mail] (Michel J. Brown)
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Brian Dady)
writes:
> Is there an easy way to just join the two spheres at the edge by
> pairing the points?
>
Sure, just set a plane on top of the to hemispheres, then slice the object, an
d delete the unwanted material from the find requester. I have used this
approach, and guess I'm the only person who has no problem with the slice
function :^) Actually, I use a Ginsu! Hope this helps, good luck!
Virtually yours,
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Michel



                                  ||
                                __||__ The opinions expressed by this author
[e-mail] __  __ are mine, and mine alone, and anybody
                                  ||   claiming any resemblance to ideations
                                  ||   on my part should be ashamed to admit
                                  ||   it publicly! God Bless, and BCNU!
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5709 Re: 2.9 particle question
11/17/93 09:32 41/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 41 (24%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>
>Someone here (perhaps Jeff) mentioned they made a rain particle animation. I
>am trying the same thing but have a problem setting the particles in motion.
>here's what I did:
>
>1. made a 4X4 plane in detail editor. in particle requester I went for small
>inscribed spheres. saved it.
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>2. in stage placed the plane 300 units above z.
>
>3. in action added the particle effect from 1 to 20 frames. checked the
>rain box. set ttravel distance to 300. set ground Z coordinate to 0 (the
>ground)
>
>Now the wierd part. if I return to the stage at frame 1 the particles are
>already scattered from the origin point to the ground. well, ok maybe
>that''s normal and in the next 19 frames the rest will follow. However
>there is no movement on the next 19 frames. all particles remain
Command:
>in place. I've tried adding bounce and even altering some of the
>parameters that don't seem to apply to what I was doing. No difference.
>What am I missing here?? anyone?
>
>                    |
>steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
>[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
>                    |
>
>
Command:
>
>

        Try raising your Gravity Constant, and decreasing the Maximum time
to H velocity and Z velocity or whatever it is labeled.


--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
Command:
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5710 2.9 - Improved keyframe system?
11/17/93 09:51 9/ [e-mail] (Jeff Walkup)
Lines 1 to 9 of 9 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Does 2.9 do splined keyframes (automatically smoothing the motion;
ease-in/ease-out etc...) like LW?

Also very important, are there "next/prev key" buttons?  Can I move
thru the frames without waiting for the scene to reload from disk?

--
Jeff Walkup - [e-mail] - Digital Animator / Videographer
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5711 re: 2.9 pro/con
11/17/93 11:21 3/ [e-mail] (Rosario Salfi)
Lines 1 to 3 of 3 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
According to Steve Worley, it won't take him long to update the essence
textures to work with Imagine 3.0.  I have faith in him and Apex's
ability to keep up with Imagine.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5712 Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/17/93 20:11 18/ Jacek Artymiak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 18 (55%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


I've got my 2.9 PAL upgrade a couple of days
ago. I noticed that it impossible to apply
Deformations or different Pick/Add modes to
the sphere primitive (Function/Add/Sphere).
Anyone encountered similar problems?

BTW. There will be a full review/tutorial in
the next issue of bitmap. Sorry couldn't
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
resist the plug ;-)

-----------------------------------
bitmap: The Amiga Graphics Magazine
-----------------------------------


Jacek
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5713 3D anim software rated
11/17/93 11:28 20/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 20 (50%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
    <Thanks to all who replied about backgrounds and trace times.>

    Get the Nov 93 special issue of NewMedia magazine.  The following
    software packages are compared.  I would say that Imagine rates
    favorably in the comparison:

3d reality     adobe dimen.   aladdin 4d     animatrix mod. ark geom.
3d studio      caligari 24    caligari brdc  caligari wind  cheetah 3d
crystal 3d     crystal topas  dynaperspectve electricimage  envisage 3d
explore        frontface      gig 3dgo       IMAGINE 3.0    infini-d
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
lightwave      macromodel     pwr animator   presenter prof ray dream 5.0
real 3d v2     realize rend   renderize live sculpt 3/4d    sculptor
showplace      sketch!        softimage env  stratavision   studiopro
swivel 3d      adv visualizr  three-D        upfront        vertigo 9.5
walthrough win   visual reality    will vinton's playmation

    One of the catagories is "alpha channel compositing", which is not
    supported in Imagine.  Is this related to "field rendering?".
    What do these two terms mean and how do they relate to 3d
    animation?
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5714 Rotation
11/17/93 14:13 17/ christopher arthur <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 17 (58%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


  Hello...I have Imagine 2.0, and I'm trying to make an animation
of a ball that spins for a bit, then slows down and stops.

  I figured the best way to do this was to define a circular path
in the plane intersecting the axis of rotation.  The path was centered
with the ball.   I set a track object on the path, and then locked the
alignment of the ball to the position of the track object.  This way,
I can control the rate of angular acceleration of the ball with the
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
speed of the track object.   It should work fine, except that
when the rotation of the ball exceeds a total of 90 degrees, it flips on
it's z-axis 180 degrees.  That is, it flips 180 degrees on an axis
purpendicular to rotation... WHY????   How can I avoid this problem?

Chris Arthur

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5715 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/17/93 14:04 12/ Doug Kelly <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 12 (83%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
The sphere primitive (as in 1.1) is a mathematical construct, not a set of
discrete points.  The wireframe you see is just an approximation.  Use the
Sphere listed with the other primitives, where you can define the point
count, and you'll be able to edit it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group
[e-mail]  [phone]x125  P.O.Box 5161, Los Alamitos,CA 90721-5161

   "The difference between genius and stupidity: genius has its limits."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5716 Re: Sphere primitive doesn't work
11/17/93 14:12 24/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
>
>
> I've got my 2.9 PAL upgrade a couple of days
> ago. I noticed that it impossible to apply
> Deformations or different Pick/Add modes to
> the sphere primitive (Function/Add/Sphere).
> Anyone encountered similar problems?

No, you can't deform the sphere primitive.  It doesn't have any real
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
points to deform around. Deformations only work when there is a point to
pivot/twist/whatever around.  Try the faceted sphere instead.

A question:
  I was going to wait until 3.0 is out to upgrade.  Y'all think I ought
to go ahead and do it now?  I'm getting really jealous listening to the
stories about the particle systems, deformations, real-time perspective
window updating, etc.


Command:
>Jacek

Danimal

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5717 Volcanoes
11/17/93 16:32 10/ "Shalini Govil" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 10 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
                       Subject:                               Time:5:42 PM
  OFFICE MEMO          Volcanoes                              Date:11/17/93
Hi all..
I wanted to create a volcanoe, so I presume the best way is to give it a
fractal terrain texture? Is this provided in Essence? If so, can somepne please
give me the no of Apex software? Thanks a ton
Shalini



-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5718 re: 2.9 pro/con
11/17/93 15:26 29/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 29 (34%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> I have been using 2.9 furiously since last Tuesday night, (ack! get a
> life), depending on the animation, a camera track object may not be
> necessary. The real-time window in the stage editor allows you to track
> the camera right there, just use the "A"ngle and "Z"oom buttons to move
> the camera in and out of the scene and rotate.
>

Yea, but I still like to track to an object and move the object around.
since the real time window doesnt recalculate camera angle it defeats
the purpose here. I called Impulse on this. They have something in the
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
works for 3.0 to take care of this.


> with Imagine, or the particle concept. As it stands, the particle f/x is
> just another exploding triangle effect, while the detail editor particle
> objects can be very cool. Unfortuneately, there is no way to easily morph
> an object exploding into nice cubed particles since I don't have the math
> background to compute the increase in points/edges/faces when an object is
> made particle.
>
Command:

COMBINE THEM!!!! The particle f/x (although it will work with any objects
triangles) is meant to work with those cool detail editor particle objects.
try it. make an object in detail. assign particles to it. save it.
load in action editor. assign the particle f/x and render.

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5719 Larger work area
11/17/93 19:42 5/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 5 of 5 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

In a conversation with Mike Halvorson, he confirmed that Imagine 3.0
will allow you to increase the size of the editor's work area.

GreG tsadilas
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5720 re: 2.9 pro/con
11/17/93 17:16 39/ <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 39 (25%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> > I have been using 2.9 furiously since last Tuesday night, (ack! get a
> > life), depending on the animation, a camera track object may not be
> > necessary. The real-time window in the stage editor allows you to track
> > the camera right there, just use the "A"ngle and "Z"oom buttons to move
> > the camera in and out of the scene and rotate.
> >
>
> Yea, but I still like to track to an object and move the object around.
> since the real time window doesnt recalculate camera angle it defeats
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> the purpose here. I called Impulse on this. They have something in the
> works for 3.0 to take care of this.
>

        Yep...Actually...while you can now fairly easily set the camera to
look at what you want by angle etc....I still think I will use track alot.
Here is why:  If you have to have the camera aiming at a couple of different
places over an animation, and you still wan't smooth interpolation, you've
got to use a track object on a path and have the camera follow that.  Otherwise
the camrea will jsut rotate from a to b, then jump and start rotating from
Command:
b to c etc....

>
> COMBINE THEM!!!! The particle f/x (although it will work with any objects
> triangles) is meant to work with those cool detail editor particle objects.
> try it. make an object in detail. assign particles to it. save it.
> load in action editor. assign the particle f/x and render.

        I am beginning to see that it does look just like another explode effect.
However, I have a feeling once we figure more out about it, it will be more
Command:
powerfull.  Especially the emmision thing so simulate comet tails etc...

        Mike C.
        [e-mail]


PS:  I am about to upload some demo JPG's....and hopefully some anims tomorrow!


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5721 RE: Rotation
11/17/93 17:10 27/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
Lines 1 to 10 of 27 (37%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

Why don't you just use the Rotate special effect?  You could just go into
the action editor and set up the F/X line for different frames at different
rates to make it appear the ball is slowing down.
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine
Subject: Rotation
Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1993 4:13PM

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:


  Hello...I have Imagine 2.0, and I'm trying to make an animation
of a ball that spins for a bit, then slows down and stops.

  I figured the best way to do this was to define a circular path
in the plane intersecting the axis of rotation.  The path was centered
with the ball.   I set a track object on the path, and then locked the
alignment of the ball to the position of the track object.  This way,
I can control the rate of angular acceleration of the ball with the
Command:
speed of the track object.   It should work fine, except that
when the rotation of the ball exceeds a total of 90 degrees, it flips on
it's z-axis 180 degrees.  That is, it flips 180 degrees on an axis
purpendicular to rotation... WHY????   How can I avoid this problem?

Chris Arthur

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5722 Re: Larger work area
11/17/93 19:10 14/ Steve J. Lombardi <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
>
> In a conversation with Mike Halvorson, he confirmed that Imagine 3.0
> will allow you to increase the size of the editor's work area.
>
> GreG tsadilas
>

Finally!! This is a vital feature. Was he more specific? Will they support
the display database or merely offer a few pre built size defaults?
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

                    |
steve lombardi      | She won't get out of the tub. She
[e-mail] | has morning wood. -- Beavis
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5723 Re: 3D anim software rated
11/17/93 20:13 30/ Jason S Birch <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 30 (33%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>     One of the catagories is "alpha channel compositing", which is not
>     supported in Imagine.  Is this related to "field rendering?".
>     What do these two terms mean and how do they relate to 3d
>     animation?

An Alpha Channel is typically an 8bit buffer the size of the image (at
least in my experience), where the value of the pixel in the alpha
channel is used to determine the amount of effect to apply to the
corresponding pixel in the image. Real3D allows you to specify an
Alpha Channel value for an object depicting it's transparency, so
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
when combined with another image (eg. a live video background) you
can "see through" transparent objects in the scene.

Field rendering relates to recording animations to video. Video is
interlaced, so each frame consists of two fields, one with all the even
scanlines, one with all the odd ones. If you record 25 complete frames
every second to video (30 for NTSC), so that each pair of fields make
up the same frame, then the motion won't be as smooth as possible. But,
if you try to record 50 frames every second, only half of each frame
(the even field for one, the odd for the next, etc) will be recorded,
Command:
which means you've wasted 50% of your rendering time. Field rendering
allows you to only render one field from each frame of animation, so
you record at a full 50 frames per second, but only render the pixels
you need. Real3D can do this. (I hope mentioning that isn't a no-no. ;)

--
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): [phone]
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): [phone]
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): [phone]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5724 Re: 3D anim software rated
11/17/93 22:39 19/ Schumacher Gordon C <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> which means you've wasted 50% of your rendering time. Field rendering
> allows you to only render one field from each frame of animation, so
> you record at a full 50 frames per second, but only render the pixels
> you need. Real3D can do this. (I hope mentioning that isn't a no-no. ;)

If you only rendered one frame out of a field, wouldn't you be missing
half of your vertical resolution?  That is, after all, what they are
doing... even lines and odd lines.  Now, if you rendered *both* fields
of a frame and combined them back into a field for recording, *then* I
could understand this.  Am I missing something here?  (I'm sure I am,
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
because this just doesn't make *sense*!)
--
     Gordon Schumacher

/-------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Champaign-    "We apologize for the inconvenience."      _@_      |
|     Urbana          -HHGTTG                             /   \     |
|                                       kilroy was here  | o o |    |
\-------------------------------------------------------U|--U--|U---/
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5725 Re:Long Render Times
11/17/93 22:39 42/ Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 42 (23%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1993 21:13:31 -0800 (PST)
> From: Steve Lopez <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: your mail
> To: [e-mail]
> In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>
> On Tue, 16 Nov 1993 [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >    I do have an '040 with 32-bit RAM but maybe not enough.  Of course, based
> > on a past speed comparison between '040/33MHz and 486/66MHz, the rendering
> > time could be half what it is with a 486/66 MHz!  And then there is those
> > privileged few that will be getting a Pentium system!  I am glad to hear
> > that you will be leaving me behind in the dust  |:^(

 I run a 2000w/gvp040'33 and have had no probs with rendering time..I now
Command:
 have 8 megs, but before I only had 4 and really did not notice any
 increase in speed with the extra ram.  I dont know what I'm doing right,
 but my render times seem to hover around 1-2 minutes per frame.  The most
 I've been able to slow it down was 15 mins.  That was full anti aliasing,
 on a DCTV picture with a whole bunch of chrome and reflective glass
 spheres in trace mode.  I find that if you change the aliasing up to 30 or
 so, it really goes much faster.  Maybe you need to change your Octree
 values?  Like I say, I dont know what I'm doing right, but it's not really
 that slow.

Command:

     /------------------------------------------\
    /  Steve Lopez    |  [e-mail]    \
   /   Student at:    |  Art Institute of Seattle \
  /    Program:     //|  Audio & Video Production  \
  \    Computer:   // |  Amiga 2000 GVP040'33 DCTV /
   \            \\//  |  DSS8+ 9megs Flicker fxr  /
    \ IRC:Vis    \Y   |  Midi DJ500c Supra 14.4k /
     \------------------------------------------/

Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5726 Re: 3D anim software rated
11/18/93 01:27 81/ Jason S Birch <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 81 (12%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> > which means you've wasted 50% of your rendering time. Field rendering
> > allows you to only render one field from each frame of animation, so
> > you record at a full 50 frames per second, but only render the pixels
> > you need. Real3D can do this. (I hope mentioning that isn't a no-no. ;)
>
> If you only rendered one frame out of a field, wouldn't you be missing
                           ^^^^^          ^^^^^
Other way around.

> half of your vertical resolution?  That is, after all, what they are
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> doing... even lines and odd lines.  Now, if you rendered *both* fields
> of a frame and combined them back into a field for recording, *then* I
> could understand this.  Am I missing something here?  (I'm sure I am,
> because this just doesn't make *sense*!)

:-) It took me a bit of thought to work it out at first, too.

OK, imagine we have two frames of an animation. Frame one looks like:

        aaaa1111
Command:
        aaaa2222
        aaaa3333
        aaaa4444

Frame two:

        bbbb1111
        bbbb2222
        bbbb3333
        bbbb4444
Command:

(Don't laugh at the "pictures" - it's the best way I could think of to
get my point across, vis. "a" and "b" to distinguish frames, and
"1".."4" to distinguish scanlines).

Now, to play back the animation at 50fps (PAL), we need one field from
frame "a" and one from frame "b" every 1/25 sec - ie:

        aaaa1111
        bbbb2222
Command:
        aaaa3333
        bbbb4444

(Note that the "b" fields aren't displayed until *after* the "a"
fields, and so it doesn't look "skewed" - ie. a moving object would
*not* look like:

       ********
        ********
       ********
Command:
        ********

because the first set of lines have faded by the time you see the
second. This is how a video camera would record it - remember, the
video camera records the image one field at a time, and it takes time
to record each field. So one frame, consisting of two consecutive
fields, does not represent a "snapshot" of time like with a photograph.
In fact, even one field doesn't represent an instant of time either,
because almost 1/50th of a second has elapsed from the time the field
began being recorded to the time it ended.)
Command:

So, since the even scanlines from "a" are never seen, and the odd
scanlines for "b" are never shown, we don't need to render them.
Instead, we render the scanlines that appear in the final "frame",
composit the fields into frames, and play back those frames at 25fps on
an interlaced display (which gives us 50 fields/sec, each field being
from a different frame, hence an apparent 50 frames/sec).

(For those using NTSC, convert each 25 to 30, and each 50 to 60. Oh,
and make the frames three lines tall instead of four. ;-)
Command:

>      Gordon Schumacher

PS: I hope I've got that right. ;-) I haven't actually put it into
practice, but it seems to make sense.

--
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): [phone]
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): [phone]
Command:
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): [phone]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5727 Particle Animation with Imagine 2.9
11/18/93 02:15 21/ Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 21 (47%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hi all,

I followed the conversation about the particle features in Imagine 2.9
But all I hear is that Imagine will break up an existing Object into
a lot of small objects. This is NOT what particla animation is supposed
to be.

1) There should be point objects with no faces as particles which
are rendered not like the other objects

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
2) There should be parameters about the lifetime velocity, splitting
etc. of particles. You should be able to define sources for
particles etc. etc.

Any comments about this ?

Hannes

PS: I still have no copy of Imagine 2.9 so I cannot figure out more
about this
Command:

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5728 Re: render times and bac
11/16/93 12:42 22/ [e-mail] (Jeff Saffold)
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

>      Is there a way to merge a single background frame with
>      parts of multiple frames to produce an animation?  What I would
>      like to do, to save render time, is render one frame as a
>      background and then render only objects that move in all other
>      frames, then merge pics.  Is there a way to merge only the part
>      of a pic (the part that contains the object that moves) ?

Sure..  Render the non moving frame, and then in the Action editor,
add that frame in the globals as a background image.  If the camera
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
doesn't move, then you won't have any problems with this.

     // Jeff Saffold
   \X/ Only the Amiga makes it possible.

___
 X MsgView V1.13 [R029] X Dyslexic Devil worshipper sells soul to Santa!
--
*******************************************************************************
* Cuerna Verde BBS FidoNet Gateway                   Data/Fax: [phone] *
Command:
* Pueblo, Colorado USA                               FidoNet:  1:307/18       *
*******************************************************************************
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5729 Volcanoes
11/18/93 05:50 13/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> I wanted to create a volcanoe, so I presume the best way is to give it a

I've found that its best to create such a thing in VistaPro 3, save in
"Turbo Silver" format, and import the object to Imagine.  Once in
imagine, I turn on phong shading, and add some Essence textures to add
bump maps and such.  You can get pretty decent results that way.

If you want to make your own volcano instead of use whatever comes out
of your landscape program, try their (VRLI's) "Terraform" utility or
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
the similar thing from Natural Graphics.

  - steve
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5730 Re: Particle Animation with Imagine 2.9
11/18/93 05:46 30/ Cliff Lee <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 30 (33%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> I followed the conversation about the particle features in Imagine 2.9
> But all I hear is that Imagine will break up an existing Object into
> a lot of small objects. This is NOT what particla animation is supposed
> to be.
> 1) There should be point objects with no faces as particles which
> are rendered not like the other objects
> 2) There should be parameters about the lifetime velocity, splitting
> etc. of particles. You should be able to define sources for
> particles etc. etc.

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Actually there is 2 parts to what Impulse is calling particles.  1st is
the ability to take each face of an object and make it another (there is a
large dialog box allowing you to choose the particle type/size/number).
Once you've defined a particle object you may apply the particle effect to
it in the stage editor.  This where the acceleration/wind/velocity factors
are set.  I think when you see this that you be comfortable with what your
expecting.

Only difference is that the individual particle are not just points.  They
are (or can be) other Imagine objects or primatives.
Command:

I'm getting excited about this.  I was experimenting with it last night
and made the most basic anim (not worth U/Ling) of a sphere of particles.
I chose randomize colors which made each particle a different color. Then
applied the particle f/x to it and rendered it in 30 frames.  It gave me a
kind of firework explosion effect.  First the particle displaced then they
started to fall. I tweeked the paramters a bit until it looked more
realistic. Nice feature.  Now all I have to do is find a use for it in my
work!

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5731 Re:Long Render Times
11/18/93 06:19 13/ Jason B Koszarsky <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 13 (76%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> >    I do have an '040 with 32-bit RAM but maybe not enough.  Of course, based
> > on a past speed comparison between '040/33MHz and 486/66MHz, the rendering
> > time could be half what it is with a 486/66 MHz!  And then there is those

>>> increase in speed with the extra ram.  I dont know what I'm doing right,
>>> but my render times seem to hover around 1-2 minutes per frame.  The most

It would be nice if Impulse would optimize Imagine for running on an 040
machine.  Slower rendering times now are partly because Imagine ISN'T optimized
for an 040.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Jason K.
CYBERNETIC EXPRESSIONS
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5732 Demo stuff of 2.9 Uploaded!
11/18/93 08:15 37/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 37 (27%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


By popular demand...the following has been to aminet.
I JUST uploaded it to the /systems/amiga/aminet/new directory
of wuarchive.wustl.edu.

It will probably be a while until things propoate.

---
pix/trace:
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
   I29Demo1.JPG
   I29Demo2.JPG
   I29Demo3.JPG

The first 2 are pics of a rectangle and the result of using the new
deformation tools.  Also shows brushtacking.

The last is 4 pics in 1 of brushtacking and particle objects.

gfx/anim:
Command:
    Particle.lha
    BrushTack.lha

The first is a 60 second particle anim....unfortunately i stopped the
anim halfway and then restarted...so I think it may use multiple palettes
now.

The second is a quick anim of a morph to show brushtacking.


Command:
Enjoy!


--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5733 Re: 2.9 particle question
11/18/93 08:24 23/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 23 (43%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> >
> >Someone here (perhaps Jeff) mentioned they made a rain particle animation. I
> >am trying the same thing but have a problem setting the particles in motion.
> >here's what I did:
> >
> >1. made a 4X4 plane in detail editor. in particle requester I went for small
> >inscribed spheres. saved it.
> >

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Could you replace the inscribed spheres with, say, cat and dog objects?  Or
Snowflake objects?  Or any object you have?  Beethoven(sp?) busts falling
from the sky?  Cows, even better!(Note: I am not advocating cruelty to cows:)

I get the impression that this is possible, but I haven't heard that anyone
has done it yet.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]
Command:

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5734 Mac 3D software
11/18/93 09:17 22/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 22 (45%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
I went up to SDSU last night, where a Mac user group was demonstrating
their latest 3D software "Strata Studio Pro."  Believe me guys, they have
a long way to catch up to Imagine 2.9.  Basically they have 2 effects, tweens
and morphs.  Wow.  The Modelling is terrible.  I think the program is
basically a rendering engine and they expect you to go out and buy a
seperate modelling program to do serious modelling for it.  It does have
a 'pretty' interface, when you apply a texture to an object, say, a flat
projection style map, there's a nice little illustration showing your image
being projected on a sphere.  And you can do a 'quickrender' of your object
with the texture in a little window.  He was on an 840AV Mac I believe, and
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
the rendering was fairly quick for the example model he was playing with.
You can save your textures and attribute presets and they all appear in
colourfull doc images on the bottom of the screen.  The motion of most of the
anims I saw that was created with it were very mechanical in motion..  Kinda
like animation in Imaigne using tweens.  The price for this power-package?



$1,400.

Command:
Carmen Rizzolo - Crazed Artist
[e-mail]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5735 Backgrounds...
11/18/93 09:55 26/ [e-mail] (Steve Ziolkowski)
Lines 1 to 10 of 26 (38%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

>> Render the non moving frame, and then in the Action editor,
>>add that frame in the globals as a background image.  If the camera
>>doesn't move, then you won't have any problems with this.

Hey, here's an idea I've had a fair amount of success with, and that
        is using moving background images.  If you start out in your
        stage, setup the *entire* animation with all the elements.
        Then, make a copy of the entire project, rename it .background
        or something.  In the .background project delete all the foreground
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
        objects and render.  In the original project, delete all the
        background objects.  As long as the camera and lights are the
        same, when you put the .background images into the backdrop,
        there isn't a seam between the two.  You can even run the
        images through adPro or something to blur them to fake focal
        length.  This saves mondo memory, and if you set it up correctly,
        you can even raytrace different layers to get the desired look,
        while leaving others scanline.  I've used up to four layers.  The
        major drawback to this is fog and transparent objects won't show
        up in all but the first layer.
Command:
Good luck!
steveZ                 Rhythm & Hues, Inc.
celia![e-mail]
"That's not Art Linkletter, that's Mickey Mouse!"
                        -Art Linkletter, Disneyland opening day

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5736 RE: Long Render Times
11/18/93 10:07 35/ Stethem Ted              5721 <[e-mail].m
Lines 1 to 10 of 35 (28%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

   I agree completely!  Maybe some of you guys that are calling Impulse
could express very deeply that 3.0 should be optimized for the '040.  Or
maybe we could start a fax campaign here and inform Impulse of this
need/desire.  I would think that if the Imagine code is written in C or some
high-level language, it would just be a matter of the right choice of
compiler to optimize the code for the '040.  However, I don't know if
Imagine may not be written in Assembly or maybe parts of it.   I suspect it
is written in C, though, seeing the port over to 80X86 MS-DOS machines.  If
it were written in Assembly, I think it would be faster, too.  But that
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
would probably be a one-way ticket to the funny farm to do that!
 ----------
From: imagine-relay
To: imagine; lopez
Subject: Re:Long Render Times
Date: Thursday, November 18, 1993 9:19AM

> >    I do have an '040 with 32-bit RAM but maybe not enough.  Of course,
based
> > on a past speed comparison between '040/33MHz and 486/66MHz, the
Command:
rendering
> > time could be half what it is with a 486/66 MHz!  And then there is
those

>>> increase in speed with the extra ram.  I dont know what I'm doing right,
>>> but my render times seem to hover around 1-2 minutes per frame.  The
most

It would be nice if Impulse would optimize Imagine for running on an 040
machine.  Slower rendering times now are partly because Imagine ISN'T
Command:
optimized
for an 040.

Jason K.
CYBERNETIC EXPRESSIONS
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5737 Re: 2.9 particle question
11/18/93 11:29 15/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 15 (66%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Are the particles in the detail editor made of small triangles?  Or are they
more like the primitive sphere?  I would think the intersection of a true
sphere would be much quicker than the intersection of a sphere approximated
by many triangles.

What other particles are availible in the detail editor?  Other than any object
you've created?  ie are there special objects which were made specifically for
particles?   If so, what are they?


-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5738 Re: 2.9 particle question
11/18/93 09:23 7/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 7 of 7 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
With all the talk about particle rendering, I'm wondering what kind of render
speed you guys are getting.  My understanding of particle anim rendering is that
you take very little of a hit, whether you render 10 or 10,000 particles.  Is
that correct, and more importantly, does Imagine comply?  Thanks.

Dan

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5739 Field Rendering
11/18/93 11:37 92/ [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
Lines 1 to 10 of 92 (10%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
At  5:27 PM 11/18/93 +0900, Jason S Birch wrote:
>OK, imagine we have two frames of an animation. Frame one looks like:
>
>        aaaa1111
>        aaaa2222
>        aaaa3333
>        aaaa4444
>
>Frame two:
>
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>        bbbb1111
>        bbbb2222
>        bbbb3333
>        bbbb4444
>
>(Don't laugh at the "pictures" - it's the best way I could think of to
>get my point across, vis. "a" and "b" to distinguish frames, and
>"1".."4" to distinguish scanlines).
>
>Now, to play back the animation at 50fps (PAL), we need one field from
Command:
>frame "a" and one from frame "b" every 1/25 sec - ie:
>
>        aaaa1111
>        bbbb2222
>        aaaa3333
>        bbbb4444
>
>(Note that the "b" fields aren't displayed until *after* the "a"
>fields, and so it doesn't look "skewed" - ie. a moving object would
>*not* look like:
Command:
>
>       ********
>        ********
>       ********
>        ********
>
>because the first set of lines have faded by the time you see the
>second. This is how a video camera would record it - remember, the
>video camera records the image one field at a time, and it takes time
>to record each field. So one frame, consisting of two consecutive
Command:
>fields, does not represent a "snapshot" of time like with a photograph.
>In fact, even one field doesn't represent an instant of time either,
>because almost 1/50th of a second has elapsed from the time the field
>began being recorded to the time it ended.)
>
>So, since the even scanlines from "a" are never seen, and the odd
>scanlines for "b" are never shown, we don't need to render them.
>Instead, we render the scanlines that appear in the final "frame",
>composit the fields into frames, and play back those frames at 25fps on
>an interlaced display (which gives us 50 fields/sec, each field being
Command:
>from a different frame, hence an apparent 50 frames/sec).


I wish I could say that I followed your logic, but I didn't always.
It's simply a matter of timing.  In the past, we've rendered static
images and then combined them into an animation.  The assumption was
that both fields of each interlaced frame depicted the same point in
time, even though they were displayed sequentially on playback.
Consequently, moving objects tended to crawl, depending on the shape,
contrast, direction of motion and speed of motion.
Command:

Field rendering simply acknowledges the fact that each field of an
interlaced frame represents a different point in time.  In the past
we rendered fields like this:         and displayed them like this:

Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
       +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
Field  B   B   B   B   B   B          Field    B   B   B   B   B   B

Command:
Field rendering allows us to          and display them as always, but
render fields like this:              without introducing artifacting:

Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
       +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
Field    B   B   B   B   B   B        Field    B   B   B   B   B   B

Field "1B" shows the image as it would appear halfway between fields
1A and 2A.  The animation looks strikingly more natural, as if it
Command:
had been videotaped rather than rendered.  There is no savings in
the number of pixels rendered; it is simply a method of improving
the appearance of the animation.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
 Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5740 Re: Volcanoes
11/18/93 09:19 24/ Daniel Jr Murrell <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 24 (41%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>
>
> > I wanted to create a volcanoe, so I presume the best way is to give it a
>
> I've found that its best to create such a thing in VistaPro 3, save in
> "Turbo Silver" format, and import the object to Imagine.  Once in
> imagine, I turn on phong shading, and add some Essence textures to add
> bump maps and such.  You can get pretty decent results that way.
>
> If you want to make your own volcano instead of use whatever comes out
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> of your landscape program, try their (VRLI's) "Terraform" utility or
> the similar thing from Natural Graphics.
>
>   - steve
>

Even easier than that, get Terrain, make a really high peak, and save it out.
Use InterChange Plus (John said it handles Terrain objects fine) or Turbo Silver
to save it back in an Imagine compatible format.  Select points of the highest
peak, and drop them down inside the "volcano."
Command:

Dan
Terrain Advocate  :)

Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5741 3DS Vs. Imagine speed
11/18/93 14:02 16/ "Breno A. Silva" <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 16 (62%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
>duplicate scenes in Imagine, Lightwave and 3D Studio I can speak very

Hey, great about the speed comparison LW X Imagine, IMHO the anti-alia-
sing of LW STINKS, but don't make me curious! Let me know the speed in
the 3D Studio Rick, after all, I want to use the fastest and the better,
be it PC or Amiga only software. Anyway, I know the 3DS makes reflections
and shadows WITHOUT ray-tracing, so faster render times won't surprise me.
Is it true that 2.9 makes reflection map like 3DS and Topas?

BTW, I hope Imagine 3.0 include Lens Flare. I think it was one of the
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
best (if not THE best) additions of LW 3. With the stage editor inter-
activity AND the screen refresh speed up I was waiting, LW will rest a bit,
since I prefer the Imagine interface (except the animation of 2.0 that's
now GREAT!).

Breno A. Silva ([e-mail])
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5742 Re: 2.9 particle question
11/18/93 13:21 36/ [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)
Lines 1 to 10 of 36 (27%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>
>
>Could you replace the inscribed spheres with, say, cat and dog objects?  Or
>Snowflake objects?  Or any object you have?  Beethoven(sp?) busts falling
>from the sky?  Cows, even better!(Note: I am not advocating cruelty to cows:)
>
>I get the impression that this is possible, but I haven't heard that anyone
>has done it yet.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

        It can be done...but I have not yet tried it.  Basically, there is
a button under the choices for the pyramids, diamonds etc....that is labeld
file.  Clicking on this brings up an object load requestor.  This is
similar to the buttons for brushes and textures.  it gets checked when in
use.
        Anyhow, I guess you can use any object you want for this.  I wonder
how it will handle morphs....maybe you could morph 2 particle objects with
different file name objs....maybe not.  Hmmm.

Command:
        I have heard that this just CHEWS up memory....so you only want to
use it for small particle objects...or simple objects.

        Maybe I'll try this later.  Right now I'm working on finishing this
cool robot since it looks like I will be able to actually animate it thanks
to states.  No more of that cycle editor axis mangling crud.

        As far as the rendering times....I have not gone crazy with
particles but they seem to render at a fair pace.  If i recall though the
manual warns one about using to much since rendering 10,000 dodecahedraons
Command:
will have 10*10,000 faces etc....

--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael Comet, [e-mail], CWRU Software Engineer/Graphics Artist |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5743 RE: Long Render Times
11/18/93 13:21 34/ Steve Koren <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 34 (29%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----

> could express very deeply that 3.0 should be optimized for the '040.  Or

If they are using SAS/C (good chance they are, I'd guess), then before
version 6.50 you could optimize for the 68030 (which used 030 op codes),
but there was no specific instruction scheduler for the 040.  As of
6.50, there is; it reorders instructions to try to get maximum
parallelism from the CPU.  (Certain combinations of instructions can be
run in parallel, so it moves things around where possible to get those
combinations).
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

I've heard this can help quite a bit.  Exactly how much, I dunno.  I'd
wager it helps less for floating point intensive code than otherwise.
There is also the problem that the 040 has fewer FP instructions than
the 882 had, so you need to simulate some in software.  However, these
are mostly transcendental operations which, oddly enough, 3D rendering
software doesn't tend to use much.  (*)

Guess the best bet is to wait for Impulse to port to that new transputer
card.  The last Amigaworld had a blurb about it.  Supposedly a number of
Command:
number-crunching type apps are porting to it.  You just keep adding CPUs
until you run out of money or it becomes fast enough for your tastes,
whichever comes first :-)  (Well, I assume there is some smallish
limit, but its probably bigger than my budget will support anyway).

  - steve

(*) or I should say, doesn't tend to use explicitly.  Most of the
transcendental functions tend to be computed implicitly, such as taking
cross products of normalized vectors instead of cosines of included
Command:
angles, etc.  Faster that way, and generally more useful.

PS - Speaking of transcendental math, I'm resisting putting in the joke
about the fellow who transcended dental medication.
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5744 Re(2): Sphere primitive
11/18/93 23:00 19/ Jacek Artymiak <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----


>The sphere primitive (as in 1.1) is a mathematical construct, not a set of
>discrete points.  The wireframe you see is just an approximation.  Use the
>Sphere listed with the other primitives, where you can define the point
>count, and you'll be able to edit it.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Doug Kelly               Information Specialist         First Consulting Group

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
>Danimal

>--Rick Rodriguez

Thanks a lot! I was unnecessarily worried then. Other than that I love
Imagine 2.9. The Agate texture is really cool.


Jacek
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5745 Re: Field Rendering
11/18/93 15:48 31/ [e-mail] (Thomas Setzer)
Lines 1 to 10 of 31 (32%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> I wish I could say that I followed your logic, but I didn't always.
> It's simply a matter of timing.  In the past, we've rendered static
> images and then combined them into an animation.  The assumption was
> that both fields of each interlaced frame depicted the same point in
> time, even though they were displayed sequentially on playback.
> Consequently, moving objects tended to crawl, depending on the shape,
> contrast, direction of motion and speed of motion.
>
[nice drawing deleted]

-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> Field "1B" shows the image as it would appear halfway between fields
> 1A and 2A.  The animation looks strikingly more natural, as if it
> had been videotaped rather than rendered.  There is no savings in
> the number of pixels rendered; it is simply a method of improving
> the appearance of the animation.

The savings come into play when someone might have done this manually.  Say
you wanted a 30 frame(60 field) animation.  You would render 60 full frames
(120 fields) and then throw away the alternating odd scan lines eg 1,3,5,...
on frame one, 2,4,6,... on frame two, 1,3,5,... on frame three, etc.  See?
Command:

60 fields/s has got to be a lot smoother than 30 frames(30 fields)/s.  Nice.
The PAR handles this, doesn't it?  Someone should try it, let us know the
difference.


Tom Setzer
[e-mail]

"And of course, I'm a genius, so people are naturally drawn to my fiery
Command:
intellect.  Their admiration overwhelms their envy!" - Calvin
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5746 Imagine 2.9/OpalVision
11/18/93 17:24 14/ Tony Jones <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 14 (71%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Posted for Paul Rance (2:253/[e-mail]):


 SJL> 4. OPALVISION BUG. when Opalvision is selected in preferences, the
 SJL> machine will
 SJL> lock up upon attempting to display to the card. This only applies to
 SJL> the Amiga 4000 with Opal card. Most other software I've used with Opal
 SJL> has had this bug, and is easily fixed.

This doesnt happen on my 4000/opal setup. renders fine, the opal screen is
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
drawn out in real time with the imagine screen superimposed ontop, when
its finished it appears by itself.

Paul
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5747 Re: Field Rendering
11/18/93 18:00 19/ [e-mail] (Kent Kalnasy)
Lines 1 to 10 of 19 (52%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
At  5:48 PM 11/18/93 -0600, Thomas Setzer wrote:
>> There is no savings in the number of pixels rendered; it is simply
>> a method of improving the appearance of the animation.
>
>The savings come into play when someone might have done this manually.  Say
>you wanted a 30 frame(60 field) animation.  You would render 60 full frames
>(120 fields) and then throw away the alternating odd scan lines eg 1,3,5,...
>on frame one, 2,4,6,... on frame two, 1,3,5,... on frame three, etc.  See?

Yes!  Now I understand what you were talking about.  Thanks.
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
 Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
 Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5748 Re: Field Rendering
11/18/93 20:28 60/ Jason S Birch <[e-mail]>
Lines 1 to 10 of 60 (16%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
> Field rendering simply acknowledges the fact that each field of an
> interlaced frame represents a different point in time.  In the past
> we rendered fields like this:         and displayed them like this:
>
> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
> Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
> Field  B   B   B   B   B   B          Field    B   B   B   B   B   B
>
> Field rendering allows us to          and display them as always, but
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:
> render fields like this:              without introducing artifacting:
>
> Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6          Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
>        +---+---+---+---+---+--               +---+---+---+---+---+--
> Field  A   A   A   A   A   A          Field  A   A   A   A   A   A
> Field    B   B   B   B   B   B        Field    B   B   B   B   B   B
>
> Field "1B" shows the image as it would appear halfway between fields
> 1A and 2A.  The animation looks strikingly more natural, as if it
> had been videotaped rather than rendered.
Command:

Ah, those are much better pictures for what I was trying to say. :-)
That's exactly right. (BTW - since the instant of time at the top of
field "1A" is almost 1/50th of a second before the instant of time at
the bottom of field "1A" - that is, the scene should have changed in
the meantime - presumeably taking that into account would give you an
even better looking animation. However, I doubt you could notice.)

> There is no savings in
> the number of pixels rendered; it is simply a method of improving
Command:
> the appearance of the animation.

The savings comes from recognizing that you really *do* want 50 frames
per second for the smoothest motion, but you don't have to render every
scanline in those frames - you just render one field's worth. If you
wanted to do achieve the same smoothness of motion with Imagine, you
would have to render each frame in it's entirety. Therefore it would
look like:

 Frame  1   2   3   4   5   6
Command:
        +---+---+---+---+---+--
 Field  A * A * A * A * A * A *
 Field  * B * B * B * B * B * B

where the "*"'s represent the fields that were rendered (since you must
render a complete frame) but never seen. Looking at it from this POV,
field rendering is simply a method for saving the number of pixels
rendered given you want the smoothest possible animation. :-)

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Command:
>  Kent Kalnasy                                     [e-mail]
>  Loral Advanced Distributed Simulation, Inc.
>  Bellevue, Washington                                          [phone]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: [e-mail]
Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): [phone]
The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): [phone]
Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): [phone]
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5749 archives
11/18/93 20:47 10/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 10 of 10 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
Hello all;
        Can anyone direct me to the site of the IML archive?
My mail that I have been saving vanished <poof!> you are now standing
at the side of a hill there is a small shack to the west....

        I found one on wuarchive in the aminet dir but it only went to 39

                                                Thanks
                                                 Lesk
(nope a month of shipping back & forth and my 1230xa still doesn't work)
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command:

Read article (text)
.../Mailing Lists/Imagine (mail to: [e-mail])
21400.3.1.5750 Essence II/Imagine 2.9
11/18/93 21:10 6/ [e-mail]
Lines 1 to 6 of 6 (100%)
-----
You are reading a text article.  Use <RETURN> or 'page' to move through the
text ('help page' for details).  Type 'add_article' to reply, 'forward' to
move to the next article, and 'done' to stop.
-----
What's the deal?!  Is there anyway to get Imagine 2.9 to work with Essence II
textures?!?!  Will Imagine 3.0 work with Essence II textures?  I mean sure
it came with 50 textures but I want to use my Essence II textures which I
have used in countless projects before!!  Has anyone talked to Impulse
about this?  Or will there be an upgrade for Essence textures that work
with 2.9/3.0?  Otherwise Imagine 2.9 is GREAT!  I love those particles!
-----
page edit transfer mail help top logout set go done forward back add_article
subscribe unsubscribe headers
Command: